Saturday, October 13, 2007

RE: Light Framing Wood - Room Addition Lateral question

Thanks Stephen but the shear walls on the addition line up with the shear wall inside the hope, so it is not exactly a re-entrant corner as you find in an L-shape building. 

 

For an update, It turns out that I modeled the existing structure as well as the new structure being conservative on the roof live loads. Since seismic governs, I omitted the wind load analysis normal to the house. In most cases the shear in the line of drag to the existing shear walls (all new shear walls in the addition are within 1 to 2-feet (parallel) to the existing drag trusses. The new addition comes out only 8’feet while the existing structure is 50-feet deep.

 

What I found is that that actual shear was (with one exception of an interior shear wall of the addition that was more than 7-feet away from the nearest line of shear) is less than 800-pounds while the existing drag truss of 4300 pounds is much closer to the calculated actual shear in the line of resistance.

 

However, one thing struck me as odd – The plywood shear wall capacity far exceeded the actual shear that was designed into the structure. For example if the drag load was 4300 pounds, the plywood shear wall was designed for 6800 pounds. In one wall my  20 feet of existing shear  as specified by the original engineers schedule would be 9,200 pounds, but the actual shear in the wall is calculated to be around 5005 pounds of shear. It seems that they name have designed for stiffness an deflection rather than actual shear.

 

Years ago I did a remodel of a home designed by the same engineers (who are out of the area). I was able to obtain a set of calculations from them. They design custom high end homes in gated communities as if they were simple tracts and put only as much plywood as is necessary to cover the actual calculated load. Rarely do they pay attention to stiffness.

 

In short, there is sufficient reserve in the drag trusses or in the combination of all interior shear walls of the original existing structure to pick up two of the three short walls that are about 1-foot from a drag truss.

 

Personally, I think I am safe here. I played with the analysis of the existing loads. All of their designs are laid out similarly – they use a dead load for the roof of 18-psf while I am using a RDL or 24-psf (from my calculations). They also use a base shear of about 18.7% (0.187 Wd) base shear while I am closer to 21% based on being with 5KM of the nearest fault and with a soil profile for soil type D.

 

It appears that the existing home can take not only the addition, but then some if needed. I am adding one interior shear wall for the new addition and this is at a line of resistance much farther from a local line of shear – but this is a traditional shear wall less than 200 plf.

 

I think I am safe on this one, but I have not had many comments other than yours to see if I am missing something.

 

Thanks for your reply,

Dennis

 

From: ECVAl3@aol.com [mailto:ECVAl3@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 8:33 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: Light Framing Wood - Room Addition Lateral question

 

In a message dated 10/11/2007 9:29:48 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dennis.wish@verizon.net writes:

 

My gut tells me that if I design the addition as independent but make a positive connection, it will have a stiffness greater than the original residence shear walls by nature of the Proprietary panels I would need to use.

 

You could distribute the shear according to relative rigidities of the shear resisting elements.

 

 

Current code is still the 97 UBC here in Southern California.

 

Thanks

Dennis

Not for much longer! Don't forget to reduce the DSC allowable load by 1.33 for re-entrant corner conditions.

 

Stephen Macie, P.E.

SLO,CA 




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Autocad Bold Chisel Hand Lettering Font

I am looking for a medium and bold stroke SHX hand lettering font for Autocad (any version since the late 90’s). I found one that is a very thin “simplex” stroke, but want to match the look of a Duplex (medium) or thicker Triplex type font.

 

If you have you that are willing to share, could you  e-mail  a copy to me? I would appreciate it.

Thanks

Dennis

RE: Expansive Foundation

For products. 
http://www.surevoid.com/
http://www.bildavoid.com.au/
http://www.voidforminternational.com/
 
For a design guide and details:
http://www.wbdg.org/ccb/DOD/UFC/ufc_3_220_07.pdf
 
Do not forget the retainers.  I prefer the plastic soil retainers. 

Regards,
Harold Sprague



Subject: Expansive Foundation
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 15:13:53 -0700
From: Gautam_Manandhar@ci.richmond.ca.us
To: seaint@seaint.org

 

List members

 

I am working on a site that has expansive soil.   The soil report indicates the uplift force from the expansive soil to be 1500 psf.  The foundation consists of piers and grade beams.  I understand there is a compressible material that can be installed between the soil and the underside of the grade beam to reduce the overall uplift load.  Can anyone point me to web site regarding this material or provide specs on this material.

 

Gautam



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Re: Light Framing Wood - Room Addition Lateral question

In a message dated 10/11/2007 9:29:48 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dennis.wish@verizon.net writes:
 
My gut tells me that if I design the addition as independent but make a positive connection, it will have a stiffness greater than the original residence shear walls by nature of the Proprietary panels I would need to use.
 
You could distribute the shear according to relative rigidities of the shear resisting elements.
 
 
Current code is still the 97 UBC here in Southern California. 
 
Thanks

Dennis

Not for much longer! Don't forget to reduce the DSC allowable load by 1.33 for re-entrant corner conditions.
 
Stephen Macie, P.E.
SLO,CA 




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Re: MFR home foundations

Harold and Jeff,
Thanks for the help. Looks like I've got a lot of reading in front of me.
Gary

Jeff Hedman wrote:
>
> Gary,
>
> Below is the link where you can download the HUD-007487 permanent
> foundations guide for free from huduser.org
>
>
>
> _http://www.huduser.org/Publications/PDF/foundation_guide_complete.pdf_
>
>
>
> Jeff Hedman /*/, E.I.T./*/
>
> L.R. Pope Engineers & Surveyors, Inc.
>
> 1240 East 100 South Suite # 15B
>
> St. George, Utah 84790
>
> Office: 435-628-1676
>
> Fax: 435-628-1788
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.8/1064 - Release Date:
> 10/11/2007 3:09 PM
>

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WTC Studies-Structural Aspects

Dear Friends: Yesterday, I presented the results of our 5-year studies
of structural aspects of the World Trade Center in Sibley Auditorium of
UC Berkeley. Articles in the Oakland Tribune, Contra Costa Times, and
San Jose Mercury News cover the main items of my presentation. The
articles are almost the same with minor changes.
Oakland Tribune article is at:
http://www.insidebayarea.com/oaklandtribune/localnews/ci_6870312

I welcome any and all professional and non-personal comments.
A. Astaneh-Asl

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Friday, October 12, 2007

Re: Expansive Foundation

At a residential project I've used a PT slab on grade; design guides and handbooks are available at PTI.
 
Milo Z, PE  

----- Original Message ----
From: Gautam Manandhar <Gautam_Manandhar@ci.richmond.ca.us>
To: seaint@seaint.org
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 3:13:53 PM
Subject: Expansive Foundation

 

List members

 

I am working on a site that has expansive soil.   The soil report indicates the uplift force from the expansive soil to be 1500 psf.  The foundation consists of piers and grade beams.  I understand there is a compressible material that can be installed between the soil and the underside of the grade beam to reduce the overall uplift load.  Can anyone point me to web site regarding this material or provide specs on this material.

 

Gautam




Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

Re: Expansive Foundation

That is correct. Thank you

Re: Expansive Foundation

Adjebli@wmconnect.com wrote:
> Hello, here in Colorado the builders just put a 4" thick cardboard
> between the grade concrete beam and the soil all the way.
aka voidform
Chuck Utzman,PE

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Re: Expansive Foundation

Gautam Manandhar wrote:
>
>
>
> List members
>
>
>
> I am working on a site that has expansive soil. The soil report
> indicates the uplift force from the expansive soil to be 1500 psf.
> The foundation consists of piers and grade beams. I understand there
> is a compressible material that can be installed between the soil and
> the underside of the grade beam to reduce the overall uplift load.
> Can anyone point me to web site regarding this material or provide
> specs on this material.
>
>
>
> Gautam
>
I use Voidform
http://www.surevoid.com/
Chuck Utzman,PE

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Re: Expansive Foundation

Hello, here in Colorado the builders just put a 4" thick cardboard between the grade concrete beam and the soil all the way.

Expansive Foundation

 

List members

 

I am working on a site that has expansive soil.   The soil report indicates the uplift force from the expansive soil to be 1500 psf.  The foundation consists of piers and grade beams.  I understand there is a compressible material that can be installed between the soil and the underside of the grade beam to reduce the overall uplift load.  Can anyone point me to web site regarding this material or provide specs on this material.

 

Gautam

Re: UBC 1630.8.2.2.1.7 Bracing Load

It sounds like we are on the same page with this.  As for the brace itself, Appendix 6 requires a stiffness for it.  There is a formula for this stiffness, Beta, but I could not find a definition or units for it so I really can't tell what it means.  I generally use two tension braces at the top of the compression flange and design either one of them for the full brace load.  I don't see why this does not work but it doesn't seem to comply with Appendix 6.  I have asked these questions to AISC but haven't heard back from them yet.
 
Jim

 
On 10/11/07, Reza Dashti Asl <rezadashti@hotmail.com> wrote:
Jim,
 
If you are choosing to brace the beam at 10' intervals then your Lb is 10' and you choose a beam that can resist the moment with 10' un-braced length. Now if you choose to brace it @ 5' O/C you may be able to use a lighter beam which will result in a smaller force for bracing. But if you are not changing the beam, as you mentioned, these new braces will be redundant. If this is a special case, you may choose to design your main braces (@10' O/C) for the brace force and the redundant ones for whatever you want. But let's look at another example:
 
If you need a 30' beam with phi_bMn>=200 K-ft and you have typical braced conditions at 5' O/C you may choose a W14x34 and design the braces for F1. Now if you have to choose a W14x43 for deflection reasons you only need one braced point at 15' with a design force of F2>F1(for un-braced length of 15' you get 208 k-ft for W14x43)but if we still have to have similar braced conditions at 5' (like a connection from joists or...) and we want to verify or design the braces I would probably design all of them for F2 or simply switch to a W14x61 with no braced points! (for un-braced length of 30' and 215 k-ft) It may actually end up to be a cheaper option.
 
You may argue that for braces at 5' O/C and your max moment you did not need the W14x43 and F2 but only W14x34 and F1 and as such design the braces only for F1. You may have a point here since for a beam supporting only gravity load, a capacity design concept for brace connections may not be required. But things can change and some decades later the next engineer, not requiring the same exact deflection criteria in a renovation, may assume that you had a W14x43 braced at 5' O/c and add up to 30% load to your beam! I know that he will be required to check everything but...
 
Reza Dashti P.Eng
Vancouver, BC





Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:21:18 -0700
From: omega.two.0@gmail.com
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: UBC 1630.8.2.2.1.7 Bracing Load

Reza,
 
What you say is essentially what I am doing now but in your example if I use a brace at, say the 10 ft. points, then I can calculate a force for the brace.  If I want to brace at 5 ft. instead then I get the exact same force.  If I want to brace at 2 ft -- again it's the same force.  Regardless of the lc or lu of the member the force is always the same -- if based on the stress in the flange.  But I think what you say is that for the force calculated it will only have to occur at either the Lc or Lu distance depending on what stress I want to use.  If I use an Lb > Lc then the brace distance, Lb, is only where I choose to place it using the allowable respective stress at that length.  Any lesser length between braces is redundant but the force would be the same.
 
Jim Persing
 
On 10/10/07, Paul Ransom <ad026@hwcn.org> wrote:
> From: "Kevin Below" <kbofoz@gmail.com >

> Jim, it seems to me too that if the load is applied on the bottom flange
> then the beam is stable and cannot rotate.  I had the same scenario some
> months ago with a small foot-bridge (30 ft span) using through-trusses.   i.e.,
> the supporting trusses also act as the guard-rails, and the traffic surface
> is supported directly on the bottom chords of the trusses.  The top chords
> have no lateral support at all, but the trusses cannot rotate.

Kevin,
Check out the general beam moment capacity development as described in the
SSRC Guide to Stability of Steel Structures (I'm going from memory as I
don't have it at my fingertips). Loading below the N.A. improves stability
(e.g. longer unbraced length for same capacity) but may not remove the need
to stabilize the compression flange.

In your example, there may be other contributing factors such as moment
restraint at the deck level that provides a torsional brace to restrain the
compression chord.

Regards
Paul
--
Paul Ransom, P.Eng.
ad026@hwcn.org

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Re: MFR home foundations

Gary,

Below is the link where you can download the HUD-007487 permanent foundations guide for free from huduser.org

 

http://www.huduser.org/Publications/PDF/foundation_guide_complete.pdf

 

Jeff Hedman , E.I.T.

L.R. Pope Engineers & Surveyors, Inc.

1240 East 100 South Suite # 15B

St. George, Utah  84790

Office: 435-628-1676

Fax: 435-628-1788

RE: MFR home foundations


http://www.huduser.org/Publications/PDF/foundation_guide_complete.pdf

Regards,
Harold Sprague

> Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 07:40:10 -0400
> From: ghodgson@bellnet.ca
> To: seaint@seaint.org
> Subject: Re: MFR home foundations
>
> Jeff and others,
> Can you tell me where to get a copy of the HUD manual? TIA.
> Gary
>
> Jeff Hedman wrote:
> >
> > Our firm does a significant number of these. We have a simple
> > inspection form letter that we use that has all the inspection points
> > listed on it, along with what will be required to bring the foundation
> > into HUD compliance if those points fail. We inspect for 4 different
> > items: skirting, what the support piers are, are there footings or a
> > slab under the piers, and lateral anchorage to the foundation. We
> > delete the sections from the form letter that passed or do not apply
> > and the only calculations we would do are for the number of required
> > tie downs (since we are not designing the foundation, only the
> > straps). Some mortgage companies will ask you to certify that any
> > additions to the manufactured home meet HUD standards. Be wary of
> > these additions to these homes as we have been told by the State HUD
> > people that all additions must be free standing (car ports or other
> > additions may not bear on the existing manufactured home, which is not
> > the case the majority of the time). Since most of these additions are
> > extremely light, like car ports, we usually ignore this fact as these
> > additions are not going to bring the manufactured home down (unless
> > there are heavy snow loads which are not a problem in southern Utah).
> > The additions of rooms or garages to these homes tend to be
> > problematic unless the home was originally engineered for the addition
> > which happens often in the case of a garage addition, but it is
> > usually not verifiable. We do not have a problem with getting paid as
> > we always use the same mortgage companies and they make sure we get
> > paid. As far as the loan not closing if the foundation does not pass,
> > we have not had this problem very often. Most times a contractor is
> > hired to make the improvements, and after they are complete we come
> > back out to reinspect (for an additional fee) and then issue a new
> > letter that states that the home is in compliance. The HUD manual is
> > not as complicated as it looks. If you get to the section on types of
> > foundations, there are actually cross sections of the allowable types
> > of permanent foundations. The manual also does say that the cross
> > sections are only representative of the most common types of
> > foundations and that additional foundation types would be acceptable,
> > but with no guidelines as to what those additional types are.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jeff Hedman /*/, E.I.T./*/
> >
> > L.R. Pope Engineers & Surveyors, Inc.
> >
> > 1240 East 100 South Suite # 15B
> >
> > St. George, Utah 84790
> >
> > Office: 435-628-1676
> >
> > Fax: 435-628-1788
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.7/1062 - Release Date:
> > 10/10/2007 5:11 PM
> >
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
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> * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
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Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare! Try now!

Re: MFR home foundations

Jeff and others,
Can you tell me where to get a copy of the HUD manual? TIA.
Gary

Jeff Hedman wrote:
>
> Our firm does a significant number of these. We have a simple
> inspection form letter that we use that has all the inspection points
> listed on it, along with what will be required to bring the foundation
> into HUD compliance if those points fail. We inspect for 4 different
> items: skirting, what the support piers are, are there footings or a
> slab under the piers, and lateral anchorage to the foundation. We
> delete the sections from the form letter that passed or do not apply
> and the only calculations we would do are for the number of required
> tie downs (since we are not designing the foundation, only the
> straps). Some mortgage companies will ask you to certify that any
> additions to the manufactured home meet HUD standards. Be wary of
> these additions to these homes as we have been told by the State HUD
> people that all additions must be free standing (car ports or other
> additions may not bear on the existing manufactured home, which is not
> the case the majority of the time). Since most of these additions are
> extremely light, like car ports, we usually ignore this fact as these
> additions are not going to bring the manufactured home down (unless
> there are heavy snow loads which are not a problem in southern Utah).
> The additions of rooms or garages to these homes tend to be
> problematic unless the home was originally engineered for the addition
> which happens often in the case of a garage addition, but it is
> usually not verifiable. We do not have a problem with getting paid as
> we always use the same mortgage companies and they make sure we get
> paid. As far as the loan not closing if the foundation does not pass,
> we have not had this problem very often. Most times a contractor is
> hired to make the improvements, and after they are complete we come
> back out to reinspect (for an additional fee) and then issue a new
> letter that states that the home is in compliance. The HUD manual is
> not as complicated as it looks. If you get to the section on types of
> foundations, there are actually cross sections of the allowable types
> of permanent foundations. The manual also does say that the cross
> sections are only representative of the most common types of
> foundations and that additional foundation types would be acceptable,
> but with no guidelines as to what those additional types are.
>
>
>
> Jeff Hedman /*/, E.I.T./*/
>
> L.R. Pope Engineers & Surveyors, Inc.
>
> 1240 East 100 South Suite # 15B
>
> St. George, Utah 84790
>
> Office: 435-628-1676
>
> Fax: 435-628-1788
>
>
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.7/1062 - Release Date:
> 10/10/2007 5:11 PM
>

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Ahkam Syahril is out of the office.

I will be out of the office starting 12/10/2007 and will not return until
29/10/2007.

I will respond to your message when I return. Please contact Silvie Eviaty
(during 22/10/07 until 26/10/07 )when do you think you need our assistance
regarding to projects/official business


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Thursday, October 11, 2007

Light Framing Wood - Room Addition Lateral question

I have a client adding approximately 295 square feet onto a home that is 3711 sf. The plan is controlled by seismic. The contractor representing the owner wants to remove approximately 38-feet of a 70’-0” long wall. I am having the truss manufacturer design a 38’-0” long Grider/Drag truss to pick up the ends of the existing trusses (minus the truss tails) at the bottom chord of the girder truss with a Simpson THA Adjustable Truss Hangers. This will allow a smooth transition of the existing 10’-0” ceiling from the existing to the new without having to drop a beam below the ceiling level.  The truss manufacturer is a high-end company out here who does very good work.

 

The existing roof is pitched 5:12 and slopes down to the addition. The new trusses (including the girder/drag truss slopes perpendicular at 5:12 with a gable end in the front of the addition. The roof tile will be removed and a series of diminishing height trusses will be set on the existing sheathing with Simpson VTC-2 Valley Truss Clips that are found in their New C-2007 Catalog (page 149). The tile will be relocated to the higher roof.

 

Parallel to the main home, I will need to resolve the shear in the wall removed (20-feet of shear wall at 460 plf max. or 9200 pounds of shear) into an area closer to the front of the home where there is somewhat more than 20-feet of wall that I can retrofit a new proprietary shear wall (two Hardy Panels) or a new plywood wall if I can resolve the 3x plate requirement and retrofit something in or decrease the spacing of anchors. The new Girder/Drag truss will sit flush to the outside face of the existing wall and bear on the new construction. I thought I could get a Simpson DSC Drag Strut Connector as long as the load developed by the time the force reaches the portion of the roof being replaced by the drag / girder. At 10,000 pounds (Existing + New) of shear into 70-feet of wall, the diaphragm boundary shear is only 143 plf. The total connection at each end of the truss should not exceed 4,235 pounds of shear. If it does, I’ll pick up the additional drag load in blocking below and between the lower truss blocking. This is doable.

 

There is sufficient solid wall for almost 30 feet I the front of the building to remove stucco, sheath with plywood. Worst case, I’ll remove 80-inches of wall or (2) 48” panels to install and HF1048 Hardy Frame (or two to meet the load). Uplift is not a big problem when length is considered with a 15-foot tributary tile roof load . I can pick this up with an epoxy anchor.

 

Here is the question – in the direction normal to the home, the majority of the new roof is a California Framed roof plus the 295 s.f. added to the structure. I originally designed it to act independent, but after some consideration it seems that all I am adding is 7.9% to the overall roof area (seismic controls over wind). If I design the structure as connected but braced to handle the shear calculated by the area of the addition I will have a stiffness problem between the new and the existing with the new being the stiffer of the two as I would need to add Hardy Panels inasmuch as there are large openings in the 8’-0” wide walls for cart entry and at the back side, for window view of the mountains.

 

Here is what I would like to get advice for:

1.       I have location of all drag trusses that will connect to the new girder truss and at the opposite end of the home are connected to three heavy shear walls.

2.       I know the design capacity of the drag trusses and I can calculate the capacity of the plywood shear walls based on the shear wall schedule from the original engineers drawings. The home was built to the 97 UBC.

3.       I suspect that there is a reserve capacity in the drag trusses and the shear walls on the plans. I would like to omit the shear in the addition and have the calculated shear at the addition drag into the existing roof without changing the stiffness by introducing a proprietary shear wall.

4.       At the worst case, the truss company can check the existing drag trusses for the additional capacity that the new addition will provide.

5.       I would also add blocking to the sub-diaphragm in order to transfer the drag from the new to the existing by blocking the bottom chord as far as necessary into the existing addition.

 

My gut tells me that if I design the addition as independent but make a positive connection, it will have a stiffness greater than the original residence shear walls by nature of the Proprietary panels I would need to use. This can cause the stiffer elements to take the initial jolt, fail after a number of cycles and then yield the new load into the existing load into the existing shear walls of below the drag trusses. I don’t like this idea.

 

My same gut is telling me to try and drag the addition into the existing diaphragm and to the aligned drag trusses since most of the nailing is based on capacity of shear rather than actual shear (this is unknown or assumed as the capacity the drag trusses were ordered designed for). If the reserve capacity exists then I can eliminate the shear normal to the main home and have both structures move together sharing common stiffness in the existing shear walls.

 

Finally, the total increase in square footage amounts to a conservative 7.9% and the design weight is insignificant because the only additional weight added to the roof is the new decreasing 5:12 pitched California Framed Trusses. From experience, the capacity of the manufactured trusses usually exceeds the weight of the engineers calculated design loads due to the separate 10-psf added to the bottom chord of the truss and not deducted from the top chord.

 

If this is as it appears, do any of you see a flaw in my design assumptions and performance intuition? I think it is a much greater risk to add stiffer shear elements in the addition that will be within 2-feet of a drag truss (essentially putting the shear in the same line).

 

I’d appreciate any comments you may have. Current code is still the 97 UBC here in Southern California.

 

Thanks

Dennis

Re: UBC 1630.8.2.2.1.7 Bracing Load

I had never heard of the SSRC Paul.  Thanks for the reference. 

In my case, there certainly is moment restraint at the base of the bottom chord.

Kevin

On 10/11/07, Paul Ransom <ad026@hwcn.org> wrote:
> From: "Kevin Below" < kbofoz@gmail.com>

> Jim, it seems to me too that if the load is applied on the bottom flange
> then the beam is stable and cannot rotate.  I had the same scenario some
> months ago with a small foot-bridge (30 ft span) using through-trusses.  i.e.,
> the supporting trusses also act as the guard-rails, and the traffic surface
> is supported directly on the bottom chords of the trusses.  The top chords
> have no lateral support at all, but the trusses cannot rotate.

Kevin,
Check out the general beam moment capacity development as described in the
SSRC Guide to Stability of Steel Structures (I'm going from memory as I
don't have it at my fingertips). Loading below the N.A. improves stability
(e.g. longer unbraced length for same capacity) but may not remove the need
to stabilize the compression flange.

In your example, there may be other contributing factors such as moment
restraint at the deck level that provides a torsional brace to restrain the
compression chord.

Regards
Paul
--
Paul Ransom, P.Eng.
ad026@hwcn.org

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RE: UBC 1630.8.2.2.1.7 Bracing Load

Jim,
 
If you are choosing to brace the beam at 10' intervals then your Lb is 10' and you choose a beam that can resist the moment with 10' un-braced length. Now if you choose to brace it @ 5' O/C you may be able to use a lighter beam which will result in a smaller force for bracing. But if you are not changing the beam, as you mentioned, these new braces will be redundant. If this is a special case, you may choose to design your main braces (@10' O/C) for the brace force and the redundant ones for whatever you want. But let's look at another example:
 
If you need a 30' beam with phi_bMn>=200 K-ft and you have typical braced conditions at 5' O/C you may choose a W14x34 and design the braces for F1. Now if you have to choose a W14x43 for deflection reasons you only need one braced point at 15' with a design force of F2>F1(for un-braced length of 15' you get 208 k-ft for W14x43)but if we still have to have similar braced conditions at 5' (like a connection from joists or...) and we want to verify or design the braces I would probably design all of them for F2 or simply switch to a W14x61 with no braced points! (for un-braced length of 30' and 215 k-ft) It may actually end up to be a cheaper option.
 
You may argue that for braces at 5' O/C and your max moment you did not need the W14x43 and F2 but only W14x34 and F1 and as such design the braces only for F1. You may have a point here since for a beam supporting only gravity load, a capacity design concept for brace connections may not be required. But things can change and some decades later the next engineer, not requiring the same exact deflection criteria in a renovation, may assume that you had a W14x43 braced at 5' O/c and add up to 30% load to your beam! I know that he will be required to check everything but...
 
Reza Dashti P.Eng
Vancouver, BC





Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:21:18 -0700
From: omega.two.0@gmail.com
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: UBC 1630.8.2.2.1.7 Bracing Load

Reza,
 
What you say is essentially what I am doing now but in your example if I use a brace at, say the 10 ft. points, then I can calculate a force for the brace.  If I want to brace at 5 ft. instead then I get the exact same force.  If I want to brace at 2 ft -- again it's the same force.  Regardless of the lc or lu of the member the force is always the same -- if based on the stress in the flange.  But I think what you say is that for the force calculated it will only have to occur at either the Lc or Lu distance depending on what stress I want to use.  If I use an Lb > Lc then the brace distance, Lb, is only where I choose to place it using the allowable respective stress at that length.  Any lesser length between braces is redundant but the force would be the same.
 
Jim Persing
 
On 10/10/07, Paul Ransom <ad026@hwcn.org> wrote:
> From: "Kevin Below" <kbofoz@gmail.com>

> Jim, it seems to me too that if the load is applied on the bottom flange
> then the beam is stable and cannot rotate.  I had the same scenario some
> months ago with a small foot-bridge (30 ft span) using through-trusses.  i.e.,
> the supporting trusses also act as the guard-rails, and the traffic surface
> is supported directly on the bottom chords of the trusses.  The top chords
> have no lateral support at all, but the trusses cannot rotate.

Kevin,
Check out the general beam moment capacity development as described in the
SSRC Guide to Stability of Steel Structures (I'm going from memory as I
don't have it at my fingertips). Loading below the N.A. improves stability
(e.g. longer unbraced length for same capacity) but may not remove the need
to stabilize the compression flange.

In your example, there may be other contributing factors such as moment
restraint at the deck level that provides a torsional brace to restrain the
compression chord.

Regards
Paul
--
Paul Ransom, P.Eng.
ad026@hwcn.org

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Re: Foundations for a 3-pinned arch stadium

Well, it's still enormous, even at 7" dia.
I see what you mean - it's really the formation of a plastic hinge that leads to the instability long before the top pin reaches the level of the foundations. 
I don't think the glu-lam beams will show that much plasticity before the roof caves in. 

Thanks for the explanation, Paul. 

Today, I believe that I established that the foundations need to be anchored in rock, with a key to resist lateral thrust.  The client and the rest of the design team have come on board.  So thanks everyone for your encouragement.



On 10/11/07, Paul Ransom <ad026@hwcn.org> wrote:
Ooops.
I dropped a decimal in my calcs. That should be:
33 in^2, 113 plf, 7 in dia solid rod, increase for load factors.

Paul

> Kevin,

> In your case, the lateral foundation stiffness at each support must be
> 800 k/in +/- to hold a 1" foundation separation. That's 1/2" displacements at
> each support. Load factoring not considered.
> (quick calc tie rod: 330 in^2, 1131 plf, 20" dia solid round, 200 ft long at
> each arch - increase for load factors - how much does the arch weigh after the
> first design pass?)

> Regards
> Paul

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Re: Foundations for a 3-pinned arch stadium

Ooops.
I dropped a decimal in my calcs. That should be:
33 in^2, 113 plf, 7 in dia solid rod, increase for load factors.

Paul

> Kevin,

> In your case, the lateral foundation stiffness at each support must be
> 800 k/in +/- to hold a 1" foundation separation. That's 1/2" displacements at
> each support. Load factoring not considered.
> (quick calc tie rod: 330 in^2, 1131 plf, 20" dia solid round, 200 ft long at
> each arch - increase for load factors - how much does the arch weigh after the
> first design pass?)

> Regards
> Paul

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RE: Both face should have Shrinkage Steel in 12 inch thick Structural Slab (ACI318)

Could you please elaborate the ACI context?

 

Best Regards,

Sanjay Kumar Verma,  P.E.

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: bart@nbse.com [mailto:bart@nbse.com]
Sent
:
Thursday, October 11, 2007 1:52 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: Both face should have Shrinkage Steel in 12 inch thick Structural Slab (ACI318)

 

it depends on whether it is 1 way or 2 way, you might want to read ACI 7.12

 

bart

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sanjay Verma"
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Both face should have Shrinkage Steel in 12 inch thick Structural Slab (ACI318)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 11:00:46 -0700

Should 12 inch thick Structural Slab receive temperature and Shrinkage steel in both face?

 

ACI350 says about 24 in section to receive double layer of Shrink/Temp.

 

ACI 318 appears silent on this.

 

Best Regards,

Sanjay Kumar Verma,  P.E.

 

 

Bart Needham, SE
Principal, nbse associates, inc.
civil & structural engineers
Office 206-780-6822
Office 805-452-8152
Fax    206-780-6683
Fax    208-693-3667
Mobile 206-300-2346
 
Office locations:
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Suite 328
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Mail and Deliveries:
321 High School Rd. NE
Suite D-3 PMB 216
Bainbridge Island, WA  98110

 

Re: UBC 1630.8.2.2.1.7 Bracing Load

Reza,
 
What you say is essentially what I am doing now but in your example if I use a brace at, say the 10 ft. points, then I can calculate a force for the brace.  If I want to brace at 5 ft. instead then I get the exact same force.  If I want to brace at 2 ft -- again it's the same force.  Regardless of the lc or lu of the member the force is always the same -- if based on the stress in the flange.  But I think what you say is that for the force calculated it will only have to occur at either the Lc or Lu distance depending on what stress I want to use.  If I use an Lb > Lc then the brace distance, Lb, is only where I choose to place it using the allowable respective stress at that length.  Any lesser length between braces is redundant but the force would be the same.
 
Jim Persing
 
On 10/10/07, Paul Ransom <ad026@hwcn.org> wrote:
> From: "Kevin Below" <kbofoz@gmail.com>

> Jim, it seems to me too that if the load is applied on the bottom flange
> then the beam is stable and cannot rotate.  I had the same scenario some
> months ago with a small foot-bridge (30 ft span) using through-trusses.  i.e.,
> the supporting trusses also act as the guard-rails, and the traffic surface
> is supported directly on the bottom chords of the trusses.  The top chords
> have no lateral support at all, but the trusses cannot rotate.

Kevin,
Check out the general beam moment capacity development as described in the
SSRC Guide to Stability of Steel Structures (I'm going from memory as I
don't have it at my fingertips). Loading below the N.A. improves stability
(e.g. longer unbraced length for same capacity) but may not remove the need
to stabilize the compression flange.

In your example, there may be other contributing factors such as moment
restraint at the deck level that provides a torsional brace to restrain the
compression chord.

Regards
Paul
--
Paul Ransom, P.Eng.
ad026@hwcn.org

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*
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Re: AISC Table X (9th Ed.) or Table 10-9a (13th Ed.)

I wouldn't think so, but the steel tips findings were placed into the 93 LRFD tables and that book does list the values for A307 for Fv in the table I mentioned. The values that result when applied to the Steel Tips procedure/LRFD are extremely low capacities (like 2 or 3 kips IIRC) similar to wood bolting values, so it seems to make sense.


-g

On 10/11/07, Jim Persing <omega.two.0@gmail.com> wrote:
Gerald,
 
The Steel Tips paper is for A325 and A490 bolts.  Can it be used for A307 bolts as well?
 
Jim Persing

 
On 10/8/07, Gerard Madden, SE < gmse4603@gmail.com> wrote:
Bill,

I have a spreadsheet at home that I can run that design shear tabs. It's based on Astaneh, Call, and McMullen (my grad school prof who was Astaneh's student) steel tips papers which the values in the Silver LRFD book are based upon. I believe I built in an A307 bolts option into it for the reason you mentioned but I can't remember. Another thing that happens is that even if you specify HSB's, A325's etc. on a residential project, the contractors will still put an A307 half the time.

-gm

On 10/8/07, Bill Allen <T.W.Allen@cox.net> wrote:
I don't do a lot of steel design and my preferences might be dated, so I
might reveal a bit of naiveté, but I'll comment anyway.

In "my world", which is Type V construction (i.e., primarily light framed,
wood, CFS, masonry, etc.), there is a need for an occasional steel beam or
three. These structures do not normally require special inspectors, but I
guess with the advent of the IBC, those instances will be fewer. Anyway,
I've always designed my simple steel connections based on bearing load since
the members were usually lightly loaded and did not need the capacity of
A-325 bolts. As soon as I specify A-325 bolts, the "special inspection" flag
goes up. The minimum charge (in the real world) is four hours or $160 to
$250. I realize in a steel building, this isn't a big issue since there are
so many connections and the labor savings of installing fewer bolts can be
realized, but that is just not the case in the structures I design. In my
particular case, the inspector would inspect one connection!

The preferred diameter of bolt is 5/8".

I hope this answered your question.

Regards,

T. William (Bill) Allen, S.E.
ALLEN DESIGNS
Consulting Structural Engineers

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl [mailto: astaneh@ce.berkeley.edu]
> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 10:37 PM
> To: seaint@seaint.org
> Subject: AISC Table X (9th Ed.) or Table 10-9a (13th Ed.)
>
> Dear Mr. Allen: Is there a particular reason that you are using A307?
> Could you please give more information on the connection or the structure.
> No specific names or locations of the structure,  just enough to
> understand why A307 bolts are used and not A325 or A490?  And what is the
> diameter of A307 that you are using?
> In my Steel Design courses, I never had an actual example of use of A307
> to give to my students. This will be very helpful in my teaching.
> Thanks. As for your question, I hope AISC or others , more qualified than
> I am , will help.
> Abolhassan Astaneh,Professor  UC Berkeley  (www.ce.berkeley.edu/~astaneh )
> -------------------
> From: "Bill Allen" <T.W.Allen@cox.net>
> To: "'Bill Allen'" < T.W.Allen@cox.net >,
> Subject: AISC Table X (9th Ed.) or Table 10-9a (13th Ed.)
>
> What do I use (table or procedure) if I want to use A-307 bolts in a
> single
> plate connection?
>
> T. William (Bill) Allen, S.E.
>
> ALLEN DESIGNS < http://www.AllenDesigns.com>
>
> Consulting Structural Engineers
>  V (949) 248-8588 . F(949) 209-2509
> ---------------------
>
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
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> *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
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--
-gm




--
-gm

Re: AISC Table X (9th Ed.) or Table 10-9a (13th Ed.)

Gerald,
 
The Steel Tips paper is for A325 and A490 bolts.  Can it be used for A307 bolts as well?
 
Jim Persing

 
On 10/8/07, Gerard Madden, SE <gmse4603@gmail.com> wrote:
Bill,

I have a spreadsheet at home that I can run that design shear tabs. It's based on Astaneh, Call, and McMullen (my grad school prof who was Astaneh's student) steel tips papers which the values in the Silver LRFD book are based upon. I believe I built in an A307 bolts option into it for the reason you mentioned but I can't remember. Another thing that happens is that even if you specify HSB's, A325's etc. on a residential project, the contractors will still put an A307 half the time.

-gm

On 10/8/07, Bill Allen <T.W.Allen@cox.net> wrote:
I don't do a lot of steel design and my preferences might be dated, so I
might reveal a bit of naiveté, but I'll comment anyway.

In "my world", which is Type V construction (i.e., primarily light framed,
wood, CFS, masonry, etc.), there is a need for an occasional steel beam or
three. These structures do not normally require special inspectors, but I
guess with the advent of the IBC, those instances will be fewer. Anyway,
I've always designed my simple steel connections based on bearing load since
the members were usually lightly loaded and did not need the capacity of
A-325 bolts. As soon as I specify A-325 bolts, the "special inspection" flag
goes up. The minimum charge (in the real world) is four hours or $160 to
$250. I realize in a steel building, this isn't a big issue since there are
so many connections and the labor savings of installing fewer bolts can be
realized, but that is just not the case in the structures I design. In my
particular case, the inspector would inspect one connection!

The preferred diameter of bolt is 5/8".

I hope this answered your question.

Regards,

T. William (Bill) Allen, S.E.
ALLEN DESIGNS
Consulting Structural Engineers

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl [mailto: astaneh@ce.berkeley.edu]
> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 10:37 PM
> To: seaint@seaint.org
> Subject: AISC Table X (9th Ed.) or Table 10-9a (13th Ed.)
>
> Dear Mr. Allen: Is there a particular reason that you are using A307?
> Could you please give more information on the connection or the structure.
> No specific names or locations of the structure,  just enough to
> understand why A307 bolts are used and not A325 or A490?  And what is the
> diameter of A307 that you are using?
> In my Steel Design courses, I never had an actual example of use of A307
> to give to my students. This will be very helpful in my teaching.
> Thanks. As for your question, I hope AISC or others , more qualified than
> I am , will help.
> Abolhassan Astaneh,Professor  UC Berkeley  (www.ce.berkeley.edu/~astaneh )
> -------------------
> From: "Bill Allen" <T.W.Allen@cox.net>
> To: "'Bill Allen'" < T.W.Allen@cox.net >,
> Subject: AISC Table X (9th Ed.) or Table 10-9a (13th Ed.)
>
> What do I use (table or procedure) if I want to use A-307 bolts in a
> single
> plate connection?
>
> T. William (Bill) Allen, S.E.
>
> ALLEN DESIGNS < http://www.AllenDesigns.com>
>
> Consulting Structural Engineers
>  V (949) 248-8588 . F(949) 209-2509
> ---------------------
>
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> *   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
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--
-gm

Re: Both face should have Shrinkage Steel in 12 inch thick Structural Slab (ACI318)

it depends on whether it is 1 way or 2 way, you might want to read ACI 7.12
 
bart

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sanjay Verma"
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Both face should have Shrinkage Steel in 12 inch thick Structural Slab (ACI318)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 11:00:46 -0700

Should 12 inch thick Structural Slab receive temperature and Shrinkage steel in both face?

 

ACI350 says about 24 in section to receive double layer of Shrink/Temp.

 

ACI 318 appears silent on this.

 

Best Regards,

Sanjay Kumar Verma,  P.E.

 



Bart Needham, SE Principal, nbse associates, inc. civil & structural engineers Office 206-780-6822 Office 805-452-8152 Fax    206-780-6683 Fax    208-693-3667 Mobile 206-300-2346  Office locations: 629 State Street #230 Santa Barbara, CA  93101  205 Fairview Lane Suite 100 Paso Robles, CA  93446  365 Ericksen Ave. NE Suite 328 Bainbridge Island, WA  98110  Mail and Deliveries: 321 High School Rd. NE Suite D-3 PMB 216 Bainbridge Island, WA  98110