Structural Engineering: 2007-11-04

Saturday, November 10, 2007

dir seaint

digest seaint

RE: Hilti powder-actu fasteners

Do the field a favor and spec an “or equal” as well. Hilti is a proprietary product that uses its own guns and except for a few products sells only from Hilti stores, (although they are beginning to expand). Depending how far from a store the job is, Hilti can be very difficult to get and usually cost more than other products. In addition, if you don’t have their gun, you have to buy one for just their product.

I get requests for “or equals” nearly every time a Hilti product is spec’d because non-proprietary stuff is stocked by most lumber yards and will arrive with the wood. Nobody wants to make a special 30 mile round trip drive to pick up a box of shot mid-day when it could have come with the latest load of lumber that morning..

--DB

From: David Topete [mailto:dtopete@gfdseng.com]
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 10:07 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Hilti powder-actu fasteners

I was searching for powder-actuated fasteners. We typically spec Hilti. I found ER-1290 for some Hilti PAF's and gives guidance for UBC zones 0-3 (or SDC A, B and C). For higher seismic areas, it refers the reader to ER-2388. Can't find it though. Is that a typo? Does anyone have this mystery ICC report? TIA.

I am looking to fasten a PT sill plate to a ltwt concrete pan deck. The wall is not a shear wall, but is in UBC zone 4. Is there an alternate detail I should consider?

David A. Topete, SE

RE: Sustainable companies

On the subject of sustainable design, I would like to collect pictures of sustainable engineering / design details, and in particular, using wood to achieve it. Of course wood is a very sustainable choice as a structural material due to its CO2 sequestering ability, but I am looking for specific applications such as using thick solid wood as thermal mass, shading windows with (wood) awnings, shading with properly designed overhangs, anything showing proper building science and wood, using wood to achieve good sound absorption etc. Bridges, buildings, houses, landscaping all are important.

If you send me a picture, please ensure the photographer is credited. My plan is to use in presentations and on our website.

Robert J. Jonkman, P.Eng.

Manager, Structural Engineering and Sustainable Design

Canadian Wood Council

rjonkman@cwc.ca

From: Jordan Truesdell, PE [mailto:seaint2@truesdellengineering.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 7:23 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: Sustainable companies

Man, I'd love to do the VE on your building. LEED certification really rankles me because misses the first law of conservation - the most environmentally friendly building is the one which is not built (you know: reduce, reuse, recycle...in that order). LEED appears to have become a placebo-salve for the excesses that architects and self-important owners inflict on society.

On the original post, you're spot on. Most of the people who have money to hire a design done properly generally want to show their wealth to everyone else. It's human nature. My recommendation to Erik is to look for architecture firms who do sustainable design, and see if he can get a job with them. Unfortunately, they're mostly going to be smaller firms which generally can't afford or justify a full time engineer on staff.

For now, suck it up and run the numbers. But look at your designs critically. Where could you have reduced materials or cost? Look for learning opportunities in sustainable architecture - seminars, lectures, etc. Go to them on your own dime, and make sure you talk to people while you're there. That's how you'll make the contacts you'll need in the future to find the "perfect" job...or perhaps the clients you'll need if you decide to try and create your perfect job from scratch.

Jordan

Gerard Madden, SE wrote:

I hear ya Erik,

but ask this, how many people can even afford an architect let alone a

structural engineer for a practical house design? Not many, they use

drafters and conventional construction. The one's with real money or

ones hoping to develop and sell do use professionals. Maybe your

family is Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie and they're planning to adopt

;-)

I'm working on building right now that is 100,000 sq. foot LEED

Platinum building that in my opinion is complete fleecing of taxpayer

money (it's a school, $450 bucks a square foot construction costs).

The building is so damn heavy, with so many diaphragm openings,

cantilevers everywhere...the amount of steel and concrete required is

probably 50% more than it would be if it was just a regular building.

Don't get me wrong, engineering wise, it's very enjoyable and

challenging, but practically speaking, it feels weird because it's

seems to be way too much for a school. Maybe I just don't understand

LEED enough to see the long term...

My point is, it's not our decision. We're not architects. We have to

make it as economical yet constructable as possible to save what money

we can for the client and still have a good design. The architect's

job is to make the building serve it's function and if it's in the

budget, make it stand out. Until the value engineering comes into

play, they'll maximize the design to stay close to the budget. On my

project, many things have already been scaled back, but still, it's

got pretty much everything going on and keeps me on my toes. The

architect is really good too, it's just the fact that it's taxpayer

money is what bothers me.

-gm

On Nov 9, 2007 7:27 PM, erik gibbs <erik.gibbs@gmail.com> wrote:

I have been working at a structural engineer company for the past 2 years

since I graduated and I like the work, but there are some aspects that I do

not like.

I do not like engineering large, very large custom homes with a lot of

wastefull architecture. For example, 5000 sf plus homes for a middle aged

family of 2?? I also do not like a lot of the architectural aspects that are

nothing but waste. Using 8x columns and beams for a trells is utterly BS,

unless they intend on doubling the trellis structure as a heli-port.

I am interested in working for either a structural or architectural company

that specializes in "function before form", or green design and building. I

have looked but I have not seen many in Southern California.

What are your thoughts on sustainable structural engineering/ building and

or what companies implement this design method?

Thanks for all the help that I have recieved from past posts.

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virus found in SE files

My virus program found and erased the following. Many of us probably
have this exact folder organization.

C:\Program Files\Trus Joist\TJ-Beam\Tutorial\TJ-Beam Tutorial
French.exe: Trojan.Jesta FOUND
C:\Program Files\Trus Joist\TJ-Beam\Tutorial\TJ-Beam Tutorial
German.exe: Trojan.Jesta FOUND
C:\Program Files\Trus Joist\TJ-Beam\Tutorial\TJ-Beam Tutorial UK.exe:
Trojan.Jesta FOUND

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* Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
* send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
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Re: Sustainable companies

Jordan

Gerard Madden, SE wrote:

I hear ya Erik,  but ask this, how many people can even afford an architect let alone a structural engineer for a practical house design? Not many, they use drafters and conventional construction. The one's with real money or ones hoping to develop and sell do use professionals. Maybe your family is Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie and they're planning to adopt ;-)  I'm working on building right now that is 100,000 sq. foot LEED Platinum building that in my opinion is complete fleecing of taxpayer money (it's a school, $450 bucks a square foot construction costs). The building is so damn heavy, with so many diaphragm openings, cantilevers everywhere...the amount of steel and concrete required is probably 50% more than it would be if it was just a regular building.  Don't get me wrong, engineering wise, it's very enjoyable and challenging, but practically speaking, it feels weird because it's seems to be way too much for a school. Maybe I just don't understand LEED enough to see the long term...  My point is, it's not our decision. We're not architects. We have to make it as economical yet constructable as possible to save what money we can for the client and still have a good design. The architect's job is to make the building serve it's function and if it's in the budget, make it stand out. Until the value engineering comes into play, they'll maximize the design to stay close to the budget. On my project, many things have already been scaled back, but still, it's got pretty much everything going on and keeps me on my toes. The architect is really good too, it's just the fact that it's taxpayer money is what bothers me.  -gm  On Nov 9, 2007 7:27 PM, erik gibbs <erik.gibbs@gmail.com> wrote:

I have been working at a structural engineer company for the past 2 years since I graduated and I like the work, but there are some aspects that I do not like.  I do not like engineering large, very large custom homes with a lot of wastefull architecture. For example, 5000 sf plus homes for a middle aged family of 2?? I also do not like a lot of the architectural aspects that are nothing but waste. Using 8x columns and beams for a trells is utterly BS, unless they intend on doubling the trellis structure as a heli-port.  I am interested in working for either a structural or architectural company that specializes in "function before form", or green design and building. I have looked but I have not seen many in Southern California.  What are your thoughts on sustainable structural engineering/ building and or what companies implement this design method?  Thanks for all the help that I have recieved from past posts.

Re: Sustainable companies

I hear ya Erik,

but ask this, how many people can even afford an architect let alone a
structural engineer for a practical house design? Not many, they use
drafters and conventional construction. The one's with real money or
ones hoping to develop and sell do use professionals. Maybe your
family is Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie and they're planning to adopt
;-)

I'm working on building right now that is 100,000 sq. foot LEED
Platinum building that in my opinion is complete fleecing of taxpayer
money (it's a school, $450 bucks a square foot construction costs).
The building is so damn heavy, with so many diaphragm openings,
cantilevers everywhere...the amount of steel and concrete required is
probably 50% more than it would be if it was just a regular building.

Don't get me wrong, engineering wise, it's very enjoyable and
challenging, but practically speaking, it feels weird because it's
seems to be way too much for a school. Maybe I just don't understand
LEED enough to see the long term...

My point is, it's not our decision. We're not architects. We have to
make it as economical yet constructable as possible to save what money
we can for the client and still have a good design. The architect's
job is to make the building serve it's function and if it's in the
budget, make it stand out. Until the value engineering comes into
play, they'll maximize the design to stay close to the budget. On my
project, many things have already been scaled back, but still, it's
got pretty much everything going on and keeps me on my toes. The
architect is really good too, it's just the fact that it's taxpayer
money is what bothers me.

-gm

On Nov 9, 2007 7:27 PM, erik gibbs <erik.gibbs@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been working at a structural engineer company for the past 2 years
> since I graduated and I like the work, but there are some aspects that I do
> not like.
>
> I do not like engineering large, very large custom homes with a lot of
> wastefull architecture. For example, 5000 sf plus homes for a middle aged
> family of 2?? I also do not like a lot of the architectural aspects that are
> nothing but waste. Using 8x columns and beams for a trells is utterly BS,
> unless they intend on doubling the trellis structure as a heli-port.
>
> I am interested in working for either a structural or architectural company
> that specializes in "function before form", or green design and building. I
> have looked but I have not seen many in Southern California.
>
> What are your thoughts on sustainable structural engineering/ building and
> or what companies implement this design method?
>
> Thanks for all the help that I have recieved from past posts.

--
-gm

******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

Friday, November 9, 2007

Equivallent Frame Method for RC shear walls

Hi,

1- Dose any one know how to model a RC single shear wall through equivallent frame method?

2- in this method how can I model the material?

Thanks alot,

Re: Sustainable companies

On Nov 9, 2007, at 9:27 PM, erik gibbs wrote:

> What are your thoughts on sustainable structural engineering/
> building and or what companies implement this design method?
We live in a wasteful way because we've always had more than enough
of everything. As we run out of things that'll start to change. If we
do it right it's an enormous business opportunity. Or we can go on
kidding ourselves that we can do things in the same old way and end
up battling each other for the right to strip mine Yosemite while we
strangle on our own garbage.

Christopher Wright P.E. |"They couldn't hit an elephant at
chrisw@skypoint.com | this distance" (last words of Gen.
.......................................| John Sedgwick, Spotsylvania
1864)
http://www.skypoint.com/~chrisw/

******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

Sustainable companies

I have been working at a structural engineer company for the past 2 years since I graduated and I like the work, but there are some aspects that I do not like.

I do not like engineering large, very large custom homes with a lot of wastefull architecture. For example, 5000 sf plus homes for a middle aged family of 2?? I also do not like a lot of the architectural aspects that are nothing but waste. Using 8x columns and beams for a trells is utterly BS, unless they intend on doubling the trellis structure as a heli-port.

I am interested in working for either a structural or architectural company that specializes in "function before form", or green design and building. I have looked but I have not seen many in Southern California.

What are your thoughts on sustainable structural engineering/ building and or what companies implement this design method?

Thanks for all the help that I have recieved from past posts.

Re: A3 Laser printers

Minor update to this thread if anyone is still in the market...I just
saw that Staples.com has the Minolta 9100n (B&W, A3, 35ppm) on clearance
for $600. Don't know how good the printer is, but this is a pretty good
price for a new A3 laser. link is here:

http://www.staples.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StaplesProductDisplay?storeId=10001&productId=102673&siteSection=specials&splCatType=2&cmArea=CLEARANCE&catalogId=10054&langId=-1&specTabId=4#desclink

Jordan

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Re: Free 2007 CBC code seminars including the LA regional amendments

Mr. Yousefi:

There were no flyers attached.

Regards
Ray Shreenan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Yousefi" <Ben.Yousefi@SMGOV.NET>
To: <seaint@seaint.org>
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 2:01 PM
Subject: Free 2007 CBC code seminars including the LA regional amendments

The City of Santa Monica Building & Safety is pleased to offer two half
day seminars for the overview of highlights of the new California
building code for both non-structural and structural provisions. Please
see the attached flyers.

These are free seminars, and they are not meant to be a substitute for
the comprehensive presentations that you'd expect from paid for
seminars. We will try to do the best we can in covering the items of
importance as a service to our local engineering and architectural
community.

Ben Yousefi, SE, CBO
Assistant Building Official
Santa Monica, CA
ben.yousefi@smgov.net
310-458-2201 x 5025

******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

Free 2007 CBC code seminars including the LA regional amendments

Ben Yousefi, SE, CBO
Assistant Building Official
Santa Monica, CA
ben.yousefi@smgov.net
310-458-2201 x 5025

RE: Hilti powder-actu fasteners

MB,
Thanks for the info. I found that the ER-2388 report was renumbered to
ESR-1663.

David A. Topete, SE

-----Original Message-----
From: Michel Blangy [mailto:mblangy@satco-inc.com]
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 10:33 AM
To: Seaint@Seaint. Org
Subject: RE: Hilti powder-actu fasteners

Old post on the subject. Not sure if this helps though.

Michel

> -----Original Message-----
> From: bruckmandesign@verizon.net [mailto:bruckmandesign@verizon.net]
> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 5:54 AM
> To: seaint@seaint.org
> Subject: Re: RE: Shot Pin Boundary Nailing
>
>
>
>
> Thanks, that is exactly what I was hoping to see.
>
> Don.
>
>
> Check out ET & F Fasteners, ICC ER-4144, for shotpinning plywood to
> steel.
>
> The TS to plate sounds a little odd unless maybe it is being used as a
> drag strut as well? Otherwise a steel angle ledger would be sufficient.
>
> Michael Bryson, SE
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bruckmandesign@verizon.net [mailto:bruckmandesign@verizon.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 4:54 AM
> To: seaint@seaint.org
> Subject: Shot Pin Boundary Nailing
>
> I just received drawings for a one story big box retail store with a
> hybrid roof of Vulcraft joists and panelized roofing.
>
> At one area, the engineer has specified a boundary nailing of 2 lines of
> shot pins @ 2 1/2" o.c. into a TS8x2 which is then field welded to a 12"
> x 12" steel plate w/ (4)3/4" ABs into masonry. (Strangely, there is no
> callout for the shank diameter of the shot).
>
> First, although I've not built such a system before so I can't say I'm
> any kind of expert in hybrid diaphragms, I've never seen such a detail,
> and it just intuitively sounds wierd. Is this common? Seems like a
> difficult way to achieve a diaphragm transfer to me.
>
> Anyone used such a BN connection?
>
> Don
>
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> * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
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RE: Hilti powder-actu fasteners

Old post on the subject. Not sure if this helps though.

Michel

> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
>

******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

Hilti powder-actu fasteners

I am looking to fasten a PT sill plate to a ltwt concrete pan deck. The wall is not a shear wall, but is in UBC zone 4. Is there an alternate detail I should consider?

David A. Topete, SE

RE: MATHCAD: Anyone Else Not Getting the Warm 'n' Fuzzies from PTC?

I agree. Seems to me I said the same thing Christopher said when I was a
diehard Apple guy, "Apple just keeps on getting better." way back in 1992,
and then, out of necessity, switched to PC. Doesn't seem like Apple ever
actually catches up...

-DB

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Ransom [mailto:ad026@hwcn.org]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 5:49 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re:MATHCAD: Anyone Else Not Getting the Warm 'n' Fuzzies from PTC?

> From: Christopher Wright <chrisw@skypoint.com>

> On Nov 7, 2007, at 10:33 PM, Rhkratzse@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Yo. Love those hardcore Mac users.
>> Like me,
>
> it's the trend that I'm enjoying. Apple just keeps getting better.
>

Regrettably, I have relegated my Macs to primarily non-engineering
functions. I waited, hoping that there would be a port of a viable
structural software to a *NIX OS so that I could continue with Mac OS. Alas,
design standards march onward. I can no longer run Classic applications on
new machines.

Now I yearn for the Apple Look and Feel as I stumble around the horrendous
MS Office 2007 interface. Why can't I control printing email from Outlook
2007? Why does WinXP Pro literally seize up running the search indexer even
when I don't have anything listed to index? Why can't there be a PC Mini
format to compare with the Mac mini so that I don't have a huge tin box
on/around my desk?.

sigh ...

Paul
--
Paul Ransom, P.Eng.
ph 905 639-9628
cell 905 802-3707
fax 905 639-3866
ad026@hwcn.org

******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

RE: snow drift and adjacent buildings

Thanks!

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Li [mailto:mli@tb-engr.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 4:02 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: RE: snow drift and adjacent buildings

The length of upper roof (Lu) should include the separation distance (s). The reduced drift load = [(20 – s) / s] pd.

Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: Alden Manipula [mailto:amanipula@novagroupinc.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 3:23 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: snow drift and adjacent buildings

Listers, i have a question regarding snow drifts and adjacent buildings.

Section 7.7.2 of ASCE 7-05 states "The seperation distance, s, between the roof and adjacent structure...shall reduce applied drift loads on the lower roof by a factor of (20s)/20 where s is in ft."

So, w/ Figure 7-8 as a reference, where would s come into play? Would it be added to the length of the upper roof, Lu. Or is it part of the width of the drift, w? Or do i calc the drift as if the building were tight agaisnt each other, as shown in Fig. 7-8, and just reduce the drift load by a factor of s?

Does that make sense to anyone?

Thursday, November 8, 2007

Re:MATHCAD: Anyone Else Not Getting the Warm 'n' Fuzzies from PTC?

> From: Christopher Wright <chrisw@skypoint.com>

> On Nov 7, 2007, at 10:33 PM, Rhkratzse@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Yo. Love those hardcore Mac users.
>> Like me,
>
> it's the trend that I'm enjoying. Apple just keeps getting better.
>

sigh ...

Paul
--
Paul Ransom, P.Eng.
ph 905 639-9628
cell 905 802-3707
fax 905 639-3866
ad026@hwcn.org

******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

RE: MATHCAD: Anyone Else Not Getting the Warm 'n' Fuzzies from PT C?

No particular reason. I am impressed!

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Polhemus [mailto:bill@polhemus.cc]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 5:33 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: MATHCAD: Anyone Else Not Getting the Warm 'n' Fuzzies from PT C?

Acharya, Suresh wrote:

Bill,

I am wondering what you are up to. Are you designing something like a rocket ship using advanced features of Mathcad? :)
I'm using it for a big Scrapbooking project that I've got going on.

Why do you ask?
******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* *** * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp * * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to: * * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp * * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you * send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web * site at: http://www.seaint.org ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

Re: MATHCAD: Anyone Else Not Getting the Warm 'n' Fuzzies from PT C?

Acharya, Suresh wrote:

Message
Bill,

I am wondering what you are up to. Are you designing something like a rocket ship using advanced features of Mathcad? :)

I'm using it for a big Scrapbooking project that I've got going on.

Why do you ask?

RE: MATHCAD: Anyone Else Not Getting the Warm 'n' Fuzzies from PT C?

Bill,

I am wondering what you are up to. Are you designing something like a rocket ship using advanced features of Mathcad? :) Are you a civil engineer or something else? I am content with my old copy of Mathcad that correctly performs addition, subtraction and multiplication - and occasionally some IF and OTHERWISE operators. I wonder why you even need help from them :)

Suresh Acharya, S.E.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Polhemus [mailto:bill@polhemus.cc]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 4:46 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: MATHCAD: Anyone Else Not Getting the Warm 'n' Fuzzies from PTC?

Bill Polhemus wrote:
Bill Polhemus wrote:

When Mathcad was synonymous with "Mathsoft, Inc." I found that it was pretty easy to get customer support on typical issues like installation and media bug-a-boos, licensing, etc.

Now that they've gone over to PTC, it's like dealing with Microsoft. No, worse, it's like dealing with Software AG or one of these other big, impersonal B2B outfits that don't even reckon with "small fry" like a single user. Everything's geared toward big corporate accounts. They don't even sell Mathcad in "boxes" anymore, if you want a single copy you have to get a Digital Download, and they fob it off on Digital River.

I won't go into the details, but suffice it to say I paid almost $300 for the Mathcad 14 upgrade, then needed to reinstall but I can't get anyone there to help me re-download the software, etc. It's just nuts, like I've flushed that money down the toilet or something.

Anyone else have similar problems dealing with these people?
Ho-kay, so nobody cares but me. Fine, I'll continue my conversation with myself, then.

I finally got with someone at PTC who was able to help me. They were at a loss as to why I couldn't log on to any other part of their site, and suggested I contact User Support blab-blah-blah. Sure, I'll do that next time I have a couple of hours to kill hanging near the phone for when they finally answer (and here's hoping it's someone whose native language is U.S. English).

So, here it is a couple of days later, and I checked and found that there is a service update for the software. I go there to download the service update and lo and behold, you have to enter a login just to download. Tried all the logins I could come up with, nothing works. Can't get the service release.

Tragic.

I miss Mathsoft very, very, VERY much.
Well, here's the latest update. I called the "Single User Support" line, but they told me "that's only available online." When I told him I couldn't log on, he said "you need to do this and this to reset your password."

So, I did that and that, and sure enough, I was able to enter a new password.

THEN I went to the support download website again, entered my Login ID and Password and got sent...

Right back to the page that says "you need to upgrade your support level." So I emailed the "Web Support Team" telling them "look, I just want to download the maintenance release, how do I do that?"

Here's what I got in return:

We are in receipt of your request regarding the upgrade of your ptc.com account. Call tracking #XXXXXXX has been assigned to your request.

If you are a Mathcad single user without a PTC maintenance agreement you will have limited access to our site. Many areas of our site are reserved for maintenance paying customers and these are the only users who have access to upgrading their ptc.com to Customer Support access. If you are interested in purchasing a maintenance agreement with PTC please contact our Maintenance Department at 1-877-275-4782 option #3 (M-F 9am-5pmET) to discuss your options.

Please visit the Mathcad Single User Support web page for additional information and available support contact areas: http://www.ptc.com/support/mathcad.

Regards,

Imran Shaikh.
Technical Support Administrator
Technical Support Department
PTC
Okay, so you heard it here folks. When you purchase a Mathcad license, new or upgrade, as a "single user," you are NOT entitled to maintenance releases of the software (and I do mean "maintenance releases," folks; the thing I'm trying to download updates Mathcad 14 from the "M010" to the "M011" release, that's all).

The details are here: http://www.ptc.com/support/mathcad_downloads.htm

You must PURCHASE ADDITIONAL SUPPORT just to get this "fixpak." It's extraordinary.

Here's hoping there's a worthy rival to Mathcad on the horizon for those pitiful "single users" out here in the wide world. This stinks.
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Re: MATHCAD: Anyone Else Not Getting the Warm 'n' Fuzzies from PTC?

There must be some sort of OSS I-told-you-so somewhere in here. I
haven't used mathcad in years, but it seems that I'll never go back now.
It is interesting that a grad student I worked with last year used it
for some calculations...I wonder if he was working with the pre- or
post-PTC version.

Of course, PTC asking you to simply empty you wallet into their coffers
is standard operating procedure. Most folks here don't know them, but
they're a big player in the mech/aero world. Back in the 90s it was $10k
for a seat doing 3D modelling, and another $5k if you wanted the
"drafting" module - just in case you decided you wanted to actually put
any of your designs on paper. PTC almost makes the AutoDesk licensing
seem cute and cuddly. I just hope Bentley's purchase of the RAM
products won't do the same thing that PTC has done to Mathcad. I haven't
updated my AdvanSE in about two years in an attempt to avoid figuring
the new licensing scheme. I figure it must be absolute hell since they
sent their regional reps to tell everyone about it...in person (btw -
thanks for the visit, Nina).

Jordan

******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

Re: MATHCAD: Anyone Else Not Getting the Warm 'n' Fuzzies from PTC?

Bill Polhemus wrote:

Bill Polhemus wrote:

When Mathcad was synonymous with "Mathsoft, Inc." I found that it was pretty easy to get customer support on typical issues like installation and media bug-a-boos, licensing, etc.

Now that they've gone over to PTC, it's like dealing with Microsoft. No, worse, it's like dealing with Software AG or one of these other big, impersonal B2B outfits that don't even reckon with "small fry" like a single user. Everything's geared toward big corporate accounts. They don't even sell Mathcad in "boxes" anymore, if you want a single copy you have to get a Digital Download, and they fob it off on Digital River.

I won't go into the details, but suffice it to say I paid almost $300 for the Mathcad 14 upgrade, then needed to reinstall but I can't get anyone there to help me re-download the software, etc. It's just nuts, like I've flushed that money down the toilet or something.

Anyone else have similar problems dealing with these people?

Ho-kay, so nobody cares but me. Fine, I'll continue my conversation with myself, then.

I finally got with someone at PTC who was able to help me. They were at a loss as to why I couldn't log on to any other part of their site, and suggested I contact User Support blab-blah-blah. Sure, I'll do that next time I have a couple of hours to kill hanging near the phone for when they finally answer (and here's hoping it's someone whose native language is U.S. English).

So, here it is a couple of days later, and I checked and found that there is a service update for the software. I go there to download the service update and lo and behold, you have to enter a login just to download. Tried all the logins I could come up with, nothing works. Can't get the service release.

Tragic.

I miss Mathsoft very, very, VERY much.

Well, here's the latest update. I called the "Single User Support" line, but they told me "that's only available online." When I told him I couldn't log on, he said "you need to do this and this to reset your password."

So, I did that and that, and sure enough, I was able to enter a new password.

THEN I went to the support download website again, entered my Login ID and Password and got sent...

Right back to the page that says "you need to upgrade your support level." So I emailed the "Web Support Team" telling them "look, I just want to download the maintenance release, how do I do that?"

Here's what I got in return:

We are in receipt of your request regarding the upgrade of your ptc.com account. Call tracking #XXXXXXX has been assigned to your request.

If you are a Mathcad single user without a PTC maintenance agreement you will have limited access to our site. Many areas of our site are reserved for maintenance paying customers and these are the only users who have access to upgrading their ptc.com to Customer Support access. If you are interested in purchasing a maintenance agreement with PTC please contact our Maintenance Department at 1-877-275-4782 option #3 (M-F 9am-5pmET) to discuss your options.

Please visit the Mathcad Single User Support web page for additional information and available support contact areas: http://www.ptc.com/support/mathcad.

Regards,

Imran Shaikh.
Technical Support Administrator
Technical Support Department
PTC

Okay, so you heard it here folks. When you purchase a Mathcad license, new or upgrade, as a "single user," you are NOT entitled to maintenance releases of the software (and I do mean "maintenance releases," folks; the thing I'm trying to download updates Mathcad 14 from the "M010" to the "M011" release, that's all).

The details are here: http://www.ptc.com/support/mathcad_downloads.htm

You must PURCHASE ADDITIONAL SUPPORT just to get this "fixpak." It's extraordinary.

Here's hoping there's a worthy rival to Mathcad on the horizon for those pitiful "single users" out here in the wide world. This stinks.

RE: snow drift and adjacent buildings

The length of upper roof (Lu) should include the separation distance (s). The reduced drift load = [(20 – s) / s] pd.

Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: Alden Manipula [mailto:amanipula@novagroupinc.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 3:23 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: snow drift and adjacent buildings

Listers, i have a question regarding snow drifts and adjacent buildings.

Section 7.7.2 of ASCE 7-05 states "The seperation distance, s, between the roof and adjacent structure...shall reduce applied drift loads on the lower roof by a factor of (20s)/20 where s is in ft."

So, w/ Figure 7-8 as a reference, where would s come into play? Would it be added to the length of the upper roof, Lu. Or is it part of the width of the drift, w? Or do i calc the drift as if the building were tight agaisnt each other, as shown in Fig. 7-8, and just reduce the drift load by a factor of s?

Does that make sense to anyone?

snow drift and adjacent buildings

Listers, i have a question regarding snow drifts and adjacent buildings.

Section 7.7.2 of ASCE 7-05 states "The seperation distance, s, between the roof and adjacent structure...shall reduce applied drift loads on the lower roof by a factor of (20s)/20 where s is in ft."

Does that make sense to anyone?

Re: Fiber Reinforced slab

If you anticipate a fair amount of bending stress due to heave, settlement, heavy load etc, fibers won't do it alone. You'll need steel reinf, and you can use fibers for crack control. That's where you use the 3/4 #/ cu.yd.

I've used them quite a lot on decent soils (in-situ and engr fill). I would use ~1.7 #/yd of polypropylene, fibrillated fibers. 1" to 1.5". Longer fibers and too many fibers may cause them to "ball up" in the mixer. On that note get a mf'r w/ an ICC code report documenting good distribution. Don't use this as a recommendation, just a go-by. Ask the mf'r for a recommendation.

A few notes.

I never spaced the saw joints more than 10 ft. These things forget to micro-crack, and just do the big cracks. And they'll be bigger than you want.

Also, use a SOF-CUT saw for control joints. waiting 6-8 hours is too late.

This is a must-do for suing a laser screed, for obvious reasons.

Steel fibers carry their own set of different problems.

JDC

>>> On 11/8/2007 at 11:45 AM, "Jason Christensen" <jason@wcaeng.com> wrote:

I have a client wishing to put a fiber reinforced slab in a small office
building. The slab on grade is 4" thick. Reinforcing will be for
temperature/crack control only. I have never called this out, we
typicall call out #4 at 24"oc each way w/ f'c=3000psi. I am not sure
how to spec this on my drawings. Is there a typical poundage per mix?
I guess the question is which is the best way to spec it on the my
plans?

Jason

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Re: Fiber Reinforced slab

We simply don't allow it for anything but early-cure microcrack control. Anything that is substituted for WWR needs to be structural fibers (Strux or similar) or steel fibers. Just because a contractor is willing to admit that he won't place your bars or WWR in the right place doesn't mean that he can substitute whatever he thinks will get him past the 1 year warranty period.

Surprisingly, the manufacturer of the product will likely be extremely helpful in assisting you with the spec. This is one instance where the manuf. is on your side - their goal is to sell admixtures, and will be less likely than the ready mixer or the GC to skimp on the product. Check with Euclid Chemical or one of the other admixture manufacturers, and see if they have a 1:1 replacement for your preferred steel percentage.

Jordan

Jason Christensen wrote:

I have a client wishing to put a fiber reinforced slab in a small office building.  The slab on grade is 4" thick.  Reinforcing will be for temperature/crack control only.  I have never called this out, we typicall call out #4 at 24"oc each way w/ f'c=3000psi.  I am not sure how to spec this on my drawings.  Is there a typical poundage per mix? I guess the question is which is the best way to spec it on the my plans?  Jason  ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* *** *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp *  *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers  *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To  *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to: * *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp * *   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you  *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted  *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web  *   site at: http://www.seaint.org  ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

Fiber reinforced slab

Jason:

Check with the manufacturer for amount of fibers to use to depend on your client’s desired results and budget.

You may not want to recommend substitution of fibers for steel reinforcement. It does not give you a slab of similar quality at all.

Another question may be the material selected for fibers. There are metallic fibers to evaluate in addition to fiberglass, nylon, or others.

Keys for slab design include:

Sub grade preparation and compaction

Reinforcement at center of slab

Crack control joints at close spacing (15’ o/c both ways is what I like to use)

Curing

Respectfully,

Bob Freeman, AIA, EIT

Integrated Design Services, Inc.

(949) 387-8500

RE: Fiber Reinforced slab

I think ACI may have some free downloadable standards on this and how to
specify fibers. You can specify that fibers be provided according to the
manufacture's specifications but that usually amounts to only about 3/4
lb per yard. That is too low for most purposes. I have been told at an
ACI seminar that a minimum of 1.5 lbs per yard should be specified for
nylon fibers in the type of use you describe. There is a lot of debate
as to whether fibers are effective but in Florida they are permitted by
code as an alternate for steel reinforcement and control joints in
residential construction.
Your #4 bars at 24"oc each way are vastly superior.

Christopher Banbury, PE
President

Ark Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 10129, Brooksville, FL 34603
22 North Broad ST, Brooksville, FL 34601
Phone: (352) 754-2424
Fax: (352) 754-2412
www.arkengineering.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Christensen [mailto:jason@wcaeng.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 1:01 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Fiber Reinforced slab

Jason

Fiber Reinforced slab

Jason

RE: Wind drift

Seismic performance is intended to be a yielded non-linear response. Proper seismic performance (collapse prevention) requires a limit of the lateral drift.

Wind performance is in the linear range. Lateral drift requirements (other than P delta) are serviceability issues only.

Regards,
Harold Sprague

From: charles@advanceeng.net
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: RE: Wind drift
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 08:07:30 -0800

How can deflection from wind forces be different from deflection from seismic forces? Deflection is deflection.

I would think that any excessive deflection, no matter what the source, would eventually cross the threshold from serviceability to life safety.

And I think that once the IBC starts telling me how to design for wind forces, then the establishment of some upper limits is the logical next step.

But there I go using that "logic" word again… ß Sorry my caffeine hasn't kicked it yet.

From: Scott Maxwell [mailto:smaxwell@umich.edu]
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 5:51 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: RE: Wind drift

It makes a lot of sense that the IBC does not address it. It is a serviceability issue, not a code/life safety issue. That does not mean that there should not be limits. There should be a limit that you check against, but the IBC is a life safety code...not a catch all code. Thus, it is up to other sources to establish wind drift limits.

Regards,

Scott

Adrian, MI

-----Original Message-----
From: Casey K. Hemmatyar [mailto:khemmatyar@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 7:49 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: RE: Wind drift

Mark:
Although IBC 2006 does not address the wind drift issue but it does not make sense to me if there is no limit on Wind Drift.
There must be a Drift limit to consider Deformation Compatibility/P-Delta effect and glazing/partition/non-structural components' tolerance.
Additionally In tall building the perception of motion due to wind becomes a design issue.
As far as my serves Canada and UK use L/500 and L/600 respectively for a 10 year return period for serviceability.
Regards
Casey (Khashayar) Hemmatyar, SE
Private <k@hemmatyar.com>

From: Mark Deardorff [mailto: mark@rstavares.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 3:51 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Wind drift

I hate to ask a stupid question. I have only been designing structures since 1976 so senility may have crept in to cleanse my brain from most information and memories. Nevertheless, I have never known of a limitation on wind drift. Once, I think in the Blue Book commentary, there was a mention of it but nothing official. Please fill me in.

Thanks,

Mark E. Deardorff, SE
R & S Tavares Associates, Inc
9815 Carroll Canyon Road
Suite 206
San Diego, CA 92131
Phone: 858-444-3344
Phone: 209-863-8928
mark@rstavares.com
www.rstavares.com

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