Structural Engineering: 2008-10-19

Friday, October 24, 2008

Re: Jurisdictions That REQUIRE Engineer's Observations

We have been doing Structural Observation for about 7 yrs. in So. CA.

Stan Scholl,, P.E.

Civil Engineer

1973 UBC DF/L design values

We are currently analyzing an existing truss that was designed and constructed using the 1973 UBC. We are looking for wood design values from that code for the following:

No. 2 D.Fir-Larch aka DF/L

No. 2 Dense D.Fir-Larch aka DF/L

No. 3 D.Fir-Larch aka DF/L

If someone could post the values for the following it would be GREATLY appreciated

Fb, Ft, Fv, Fc, E

Thank you in advance!

JEFFREY T. FLANSBURG
FLANSBURG ENGINEERING INC
106 SE Weir St, STE #1
Camas, WA 98607
(360) 835-0372
(360) 835-0725 Fax

Re: Jurisdictions That REQUIRE Engineer's Observations

I read Bill's post another way. I am not aware of any code requirement that _the_ Engineer of Record visit the site. Chapter 17 indicates when _a_ registered design professional must review the work, and when it is _the_ EoR who designates what inspections be performed.

Around me, it's a rare jurisdiction that enforces Chapter 17, much less requires the EoR to do an onsite.

Jordan

Rick wrote:

Bill,

1709.1, .2 amd, .3 are fairly explicit on when its required. The Caveat is, 1709.2 items 4 and 5. The building official can specifically require observation without specific reason.

Im licensed in 17 states, they all require it, even Occ II in low wind and low seismic.

The other issue.... I want to do it, gotta sleep at night.

Rick

--- On Thu, 10/23/08, Bill Polhemus <bill@polhemus.cc> wrote:
From: Bill Polhemus <bill@polhemus.cc>
Subject: Jurisdictions That REQUIRE Engineer's Observations
To: "seaint@seaint.org" <seaint@seaint.org>
Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 12:48 PM
Can anyone furnish me a list of all the states, counties, cities, etc.   that REQUIRE by statute the EoR to make official construction site   visits?  Thanks.  Sent from my iPhone  ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* *** *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp *  *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers  *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To  *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to: * *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp * *   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you  *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted  *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web  *   site at: http://www.seaint.org  ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********            

Thursday, October 23, 2008

RE: Support for veneer over openings

I believe you need non-combustible lintels over openings regardless of
seismic design category per R703.7.3. R703.7.2 would allow a veneer covering
to be supported on a wood foundation wall or platform floor.

The IRC makes veneer hard in SDC D for two story residences. The problem in
seismic design category D is on a two story house with an attached one story
garage is where they want to have veneer on the second floor wall over a
garage roof. Also problematic is a covered porch where they want to have
veneer over a porch roof. The way I have read the IRC is you need
noncombustible support in seismic design category D period.

IBC kicks you into ACI 530 Chapter 6 which has more restrictions on
supporting veneer on wood.

-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph R. Grill [mailto:jrgrill@cableone.net]
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 3:21 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Support for veneer over openings

2006 IRC R703.7.3 seems to tell me that veneer over openings require
non-combustible support. R703.7.2 appears to allow support by wood if the
weight of the wall is within the restriction and restricts the deflection to
L/600. It doesn't specifically mention over openings. There is also an
exception "Except in Seismic Design Categories....". I don't see anything
that explains what is required in the higher SDC's. I'm assuming that in SDC
D and above a non-combustible supporting lintel is required and if the
deflection is less than L/600 all will be good with the plan reviewers.

First question: is my assumption above correct?

Second question: Are these restrictions listed in the IBC? I can't find
anything.

Third Question: I have some openings in a wall (although the rock veneer
weighs more than 40psf) that are only a few feet wide (2 to 4 ft) and will
only support 2 to 3 ft of veneer height above the lintel. Timber would be
more than adequate for strength and deflection (Timber Beam with angles
lagged to them). Are there any exceptions that will allow this? Would it be
o.k. if the angles are not lagged to the timber beam? I have some longer
spans that will probably require a steel section with angles welded to the
side, but I would prefer to not have to use a steel beam, angles, and
columns, if I don't have to.

Thanks,

Joe Grill

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Support for veneer over openings

2006 IRC R703.7.3 seems to tell me that veneer over openings require non-combustible support. R703.7.2 appears to allow support by wood if the weight of the wall is within the restriction and restricts the deflection to L/600. It doesn’t specifically mention over openings. There is also an exception “Except in Seismic Design Categories….”. I don’t see anything that explains what is required in the higher SDC’s. I’m assuming that in SDC D and above a non-combustible supporting lintel is required and if the deflection is less than L/600 all will be good with the plan reviewers.

First question: is my assumption above correct?

Second question: Are these restrictions listed in the IBC? I can’t find anything.

Third Question: I have some openings in a wall (although the rock veneer weighs more than 40psf) that are only a few feet wide (2 to 4 ft) and will only support 2 to 3 ft of veneer height above the lintel. Timber would be more than adequate for strength and deflection (Timber Beam with angles lagged to them). Are there any exceptions that will allow this? Would it be o.k. if the angles are not lagged to the timber beam? I have some longer spans that will probably require a steel section with angles welded to the side, but I would prefer to not have to use a steel beam, angles, and columns, if I don’t have to.

Thanks,

Joe Grill

Re: Jurisdictions That REQUIRE Engineer's Observations

Bill,

1709.1, .2 amd, .3 are fairly explicit on when its required. The Caveat is, 1709.2 items 4 and 5. The building official can specifically require observation without specific reason.

Im licensed in 17 states, they all require it, even Occ II in low wind and low seismic.

The other issue.... I want to do it, gotta sleep at night.

Rick

--- On Thu, 10/23/08, Bill Polhemus <bill@polhemus.cc> wrote:

From: Bill Polhemus <bill@polhemus.cc>
Subject: Jurisdictions That REQUIRE Engineer's Observations
To: "seaint@seaint.org" <seaint@seaint.org>
Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 12:48 PM

Can anyone furnish me a list of all the states, counties, cities, etc.   that REQUIRE by statute the EoR to make official construction site   visits?  Thanks.  Sent from my iPhone  ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* *** *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp *  *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers  *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To  *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to: * *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp * *   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you  *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted  *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web  *   site at: http://www.seaint.org  ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

Re: Jurisdictions That REQUIRE Engineer's Observations

Bill, welcome to the hi-tek iPhone world; ain't it great?!

Ralph

Disclaimer: I am not now, and never have been, a member of the Apple
Family.

Sent from my iPhone 3G

On Oct 23, 2008, at 12:48 PM, Bill Polhemus <bill@polhemus.cc> wrote:

> Can anyone furnish me a list of all the states, counties, cities,
> etc. that REQUIRE by statute the EoR to make official construction
> site visits?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> ** This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers*
> Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To* subscribe
> (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you*
> send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted* without
> your permission. Make sure you visit our web* site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

Jurisdictions That REQUIRE Engineer's Observations

Can anyone furnish me a list of all the states, counties, cities, etc.
that REQUIRE by statute the EoR to make official construction site
visits?

Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone

The How and Why of Arctic Char in Ireland.

The How and Why of Arctic Char in Ireland.
Myles Kelly

The distribution of arctic char. Populations outside the circle are landlocked, relict populations.

The arctic char, Salvelinus alpinus, is an anadromous fish. In this respect it is rather like the salmon and sea trout, i.e. it has two modes of life. The adult fish and parr migrate to the sea when certain environmental and/or endocrinal triggers are set. They feed until they get the urge to spawn and again seek out freshwater, perhaps the stream where it first hatched from the egg. This is the scenario for arctic char in their "normal" home range, above 60° Latitude. Here they can attain great weights and form a major part of commercial and subsistence fisheries for the indigenous peoples of Alaska, Canada, Greenland etc. (See Char Biology).

The arctic char in Ireland and most of Europe are regarded as relict species, left overs from a different era. In Ireland most people are familiar with the Burren, Co. Clare. This is a vast karst landscape which is host to a unique assemblage of plants. Plants which today are only found in the Mediterranean coast, the Alps and even further afield. These rare species of plant are also relict species, left over from the last Ice Age. As was the char.

About 13,000 years ago the climate in Ireland began to improve. For the last number of thousand of years most of the nortern hemisphere had been beset by enormous glaciers making the life nearly impossible. But it would be wrong to consider Ireland at this time to be a polar desert. During the very coldest phases there may have been little other than small patches of arctic-alpine plants and perhaps beetles in ponds or amongst the vegetable debris. Most of the time conditions would have been relatively genial with ample fodder for reindeer, giant elk and wooly mammoths.

Arctic char would have run the rivers to spawn. But as conditions improved they would have slowly retreated with the colder conditions northwards. As they went, they would have continued to feed in the sea and return to rivers and streams to spawn. So their retreat from Ireland would been gradual and slow, like the melting of the glaciers.

As the Ice melted and shrank back the landscape began to dramatically alter. Fifteen thousand years ago, as Ireland experienced the end of the advancing ice sheets, sea level was about 130m below its present level. As the ice melted sea level rose until it was about 4m more than today (eustatic sea level change). But, the enormous weight of the ice was becoming less of an influence on Ireland. The land relieved of its burden began to rise (isostatic lift). Initially the rate of sea level rise would have been greater than the eustatic lift. The changing currents and tides would have had a dramatic effect on the coastline. Then the rate of isostatic lift increased and features such as beaches were lifted high above sea level, up to 20m in Northern Ireland.

Some of the changes would have been more dramatic than others taking perhaps only a couple of years to affect the landscape. These are changes that would have led to arctic char becoming trapped in Ireland. Rivers may have stopped running to the sea and instead filled large lakes, or the the streams running from them may have become impassable. Spawning and mending adults may have become cut off from the sea along with fry and parr. These fish would have adapted to their new conditions or died. Initially the trapped char probably lived like Irelands present brown trout, living in rich (though colder) lakes and spawning in feeder streams. But the gradually rising temperatures would have caused many of the populations problems, heat stress would have weeded out those which could not adapt. Today char in Ireland are only found in cold, deep lakes, such as the corrie lakes in the more mountainous areas. It is not unlikely that these cold lakes provided a refuge for this arctic species. Unfortunately these lakes are characterised by being rather poor in nutrients and the char developed into a much smaller fish than that which exists further north today. Even in the richer lakes where the char hung on, L. Mask, L. Conn, L. Neagh and L. Melvin for example, the fish became a smaller race, perhaps due to the relative warmth the experienced.

A typical char from Lough Talt. This is an example of a char which feeds primarily on plankton including invertabrate fauna found in the mid waters such as chironomid pupae etc. Their mode of feeding also changed. Almost all trapped populations which are known today are strict planktivores. There are some races which are benthic feeders and some which do both, but in general the char changed from a large pisciverous predator to a diminutive invertebrate feeder with a correspondingly small mouth. These changes have been
noted in Scotland, England, Wales, Mainland Europe and Iceland .
It is believed that one of the reasons the char became a smaller fish is that when conditions and the landscape allowed, brown trout colonised many of the same waters as the char. Perhaps the char was confined to the cool waters by rising temperatures, could not run to the sea due to a lost behaviour and the more aggressive trout competitivley excluded it from the prime feeding zones, forcing it to adapt to life as a midwater fish.

Char were not the only fish trapped in this manner. It is believed that the Sonaghen, Gillaroo and Ferox trout of L. Melvin became cut off from the sea for similar reasons. These trout would have been derived from ancient sea trout stocks (migratory trout). The Sonaghen also became a midwater fish, perhaps evolving tihs behaviour due to competitive exclusion by the other forms of trout, and eventually becoming a seperate species. Modern brown trout (plain old Salmo trutta) are also in the lake, these fish may have arrived when conditions became approproate in more recent millenia.

Wednesday, October 22, 2008

ASCE investigation of Katrina and WTC-Assoc. Press Story

FYI, here is an Associated Press story in the USA Today on the ASCE
investigation of Katrina Levees and WTC Tower collapses with a title of
"Report: Engineering society needs ethics policy". The URL is:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-10-20-engineer-ethics_N.htm?csp=34
A. Astaneh

Tuesday, October 21, 2008

Re: varying shear flow in concrete beam.

"may be regular if design is for maximum shear location"

I agree, but I also am not 100% clear on the issue. But I think it is like this:

The shear that is travelling through the beam, from support to support, will work to separate the beam from the attached piece. So it is the entire shear that is travelling through the beam, that needs to be worked into the shear flow equation, to keep the two pieces from separating. So it doesn't matter where you put the shear flow anchors, they just need to make up for that entire shear travelling through the beam, to keep it from separating.

Thinking about it visually, the maximum separation of a beam with an added tab (symmetrically loaded simply supported beam), will usually occur at the ends, and the middle will not see a separation. The locations of the highest differential movement should see the most anchors, if you include ones in the middle, it is moreso for keeping the tab from shifting laterally, and not for shear flow. ...

I think this is close to an answer, but something is amiss....

--- On Tue, 10/21/08, Paul Guthrie <PGuthrie@simivalley.org> wrote:

From: Paul Guthrie <PGuthrie@simivalley.org>
Subject: Re: varying shear flow in concrete beam.
To: seaint@seaint.org
Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 12:20 PM

Shear flow (& connections) vary although connections may be regular if design is for maximum shear location

where q = VQ/I

try this URL http://www.ijee.dit.ie/OnlinePapers/Interactive/Philpot/shear_flow_builtup.htm

Sincerely,

Paul

Paul Guthrie, PE
Building & Safety
City of Simi Valley
805.583.6885

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RE: Fuse type fasteners

I don’t know exactly what type of fastener you need, but there are bolts used for roadside sign structures that are designed to breakaway when the sign is hit by a car. You could do a Google search for something like “breakaway sign support bolts”, and you’ll find several such systems. Maybe one of these would suit your application.

-- Joel

Joel Adair PE
Structural Engineer

SHWGROUP
shwgroup.com

From: dave brown [mailto:lavadave@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 10:40 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Fuse type fasteners

Does anyone know of any fasteners calibrated to fail at a certain level? The application in question is a pressure relief wall that should be designed to fail like a fuse when a certain pressure is reached. Thanks for any tips.

David Brown, P.E.
Cooke Brown LLC

NOTICE:
This e-mail transmission is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above and may contain information that is confidential, privileged, and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, disclosure, copying, distribution, or other use of any of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender by e-mail at the above address and delete it from your computer system; you should not copy the message or disclose its contents to anyone. The content of the message and or attachments may not reflect the view and opinions of the originating company or any party it is representing.

RE: Fuse type fasteners

Try these two web sites

http://www.dablackcompany.com/about.htm3

http://mmventing.com/products.html

I would also be interested in other products like these, if anyone knows of any. FM Global has a good data sheet on explosion venting. You can download it for free from their website if you register.

Wesley C. Werner, PE

From: dave brown [mailto:lavadave@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 11:40 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Fuse type fasteners

Fuse type fasteners

Re: varying shear flow in concrete beam.

Shear flow (& connections) vary although connections may be regular if design is for maximum shear location

where q = VQ/I

try this URL http://www.ijee.dit.ie/OnlinePapers/Interactive/Philpot/shear_flow_builtup.htm

Sincerely,

Paul

Paul Guthrie, PE
Building & Safety
City of Simi Valley
805.583.6885

Re: shear flow

Oops - Andrew is right. For a hydrostatic load, the shear will be quadratic, not linear (as I originally indicated).

Since the shear flow is proportional to the shear in the beam, the shear at the interface will vary in direct proportion with the shear in the beam changes, provided your cross section is constant.

In typical composite steel construction, the shear flow is presumed for practical purposes to be uniform along the entire length of the beam, hence the uniform spacing of shear studs. (There is test data to back up the effective performance, though I don't have the reference handy). I'm not sure whether that simplification would apply to a short, cantilevered member, though.

Jordan

Michael Laplante wrote:

Andrew,

That is exactly the approach I have been using.

The piers act as a simply supported beam. Tied into the foundation at the base and supported by a slab and beam system at the top. Total height is 9.3m ( 30 ft) . The total base shear or support reaction at the base is 1750 kN (393 kips) and at the top 700 kN ( 157 kips) triangular load (increasing uniform load). What I am looking for is the theory behind the value of V. From all the explanations that I have seen, V is typically the shear due to the support condition at one end. V the beam shear change along the height of the member but does the value used to calculate the shear flow change in the same way as the beam shear. Is the beam shear related to the value of the shear flow ?

Just trying to get my head around the issue.

Mike

De : Andrew Kester, PE [mailto:akester@cfl.rr.com]
Envoyé : October 21, 2008 10:22 AM
À : seaint@seaint.org
Cc : dsouter@cfl.rr.com
Objet : re: shear flow

Mark,

Shear flow formula is valid for any member having a cross section that is symmetric about the y-axis, which I imagine your piers would be.

f= (V*Q)/I

Q= ybar*A

Q= first moment of the cross-sectional area between the top surface of the beam and the contact surfaces where the shear flow is being calculated.

Got this from pgs 284-85,

So depending on the loading of the cantilever, shear may be variable (uniform loading) or constant (point load at the end). I think I have that right. So with your piers I don't know if the forces resolve into a point load or if they are triangular load (increasing uniform load)...

My question would be is it worth it to vary the repair detail throughout the pier length or will it just be simpler to maintain a typical section for constructability purposes?

Regards,

Andrew

Andrew Kester, P.E.
Principal/Project Manager
ADK Structural Engineering, PLLC
1510 E. Colonial Drive, Suite 301
Orlando, FL 32803

RE: shear flow

Andrew,

That is exactly the approach I have been using.

The piers act as a simply supported beam. Tied into the foundation at the base and supported by a slab and beam system at the top. Total height is 9.3m ( 30 ft) . The total base shear or support reaction at the base is 1750 kN (393 kips) and at the top 700 kN ( 157 kips) triangular load (increasing uniform load). What I am looking for is the theory behind the value of V. From all the explanations that I have seen, V is typically the shear due to the support condition at one end. V the beam shear change along the height of the member but does the value used to calculate the shear flow change in the same way as the beam shear. Is the beam shear related to the value of the shear flow ?

Just trying to get my head around the issue.

Mike

De : Andrew Kester, PE [mailto:akester@cfl.rr.com]
Envoyé : October 21, 2008 10:22 AM
À : seaint@seaint.org
Cc : dsouter@cfl.rr.com
Objet : re: shear flow

Mark,

Shear flow formula is valid for any member having a cross section that is symmetric about the y-axis, which I imagine your piers would be.

f= (V*Q)/I

Q= ybar*A

Q= first moment of the cross-sectional area between the top surface of the beam and the contact surfaces where the shear flow is being calculated.

Got this from pgs 284-85,

So depending on the loading of the cantilever, shear may be variable (uniform loading) or constant (point load at the end). I think I have that right. So with your piers I don't know if the forces resolve into a point load or if they are triangular load (increasing uniform load)...

My question would be is it worth it to vary the repair detail throughout the pier length or will it just be simpler to maintain a typical section for constructability purposes?

Regards,

Andrew

Andrew Kester, P.E.
Principal/Project Manager
ADK Structural Engineering, PLLC
1510 E. Colonial Drive, Suite 301
Orlando, FL 32803

re: shear flow

BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:2.1
N:Andrew Kester;PE
FN:Andrew Kester, PE
EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:akester@cfl.rr.com
REV:20081021T142207Z
END:VCARD

Mark,

Shear flow formula is valid for any member having a cross section that is symmetric about the y-axis, which I imagine your piers would be.

f= (V*Q)/I

Q= ybar*A

Q= first moment of the cross-sectional area between the top surface of the beam and the contact surfaces where the shear flow is being calculated.

Got this from pgs 284-85,

My question would be is it worth it to vary the repair detail throughout the pier length or will it just be simpler to maintain a typical section for constructability purposes?

Regards,

Andrew

Andrew Kester, P.E.
Principal/Project Manager
ADK Structural Engineering, PLLC
1510 E. Colonial Drive, Suite 301
Orlando, FL 32803

Re: varying shear flow in concrete beam.

It likely does, since your force will vary along the length. Using VQ/It at different stations along the length should give you the answer you need. If your only lateral force is hydrostatic, it will vary linearly up to the maximum at the base - presuming your additional section is uniform.

Jordan

Michael Laplante wrote:

I have a situation were an existing vertical concrete beam (not a column but a pier with hydrostatic forces) that needs reinforcing. The thought is to scab on a reinforced section the will have tension reinforcement for flexture and shear reinforcement that will be tied back into the compression zone of the existing pier. My question.... does the shear flow at the interface between the two sections ( old and new) vary along the height? All the references that I have consulted gave examples for simply supported steel beams that are welded or bolted. These fasteners were designed based on the support reactions and distrubuted evenly along the interface.

Mike

Monday, October 20, 2008

Re: varying shear flow in concrete beam.

Mike:

You may want to consult some of the Fiber Wrap representatives. They could help with both bending and shear capacity.

Farzin S. Rahbar, SE
David C. Weiss Structural Engineer & Associates, Inc.
(818) 227-8040 Ex. 13 Fax: (818) 227-8041

In a message dated 10/20/2008 1:06:06 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Michael.Laplante@cima.ca writes:

I have a situation were an existing vertical concrete beam (not a column but a pier with hydrostatic forces) that needs reinforcing. The thought is to scab on a reinforced section the will have tension reinforcement for flexture and shear reinforcement that will be tied back into the compression zone of the existing pier. My question.... does the shear flow at the interface between the two sections ( old and new) vary along the height? All the references that I have consulted gave examples for simply supported steel beams that are welded or bolted. These fasteners were designed based on the support reactions and distrubuted evenly along the interface.

Mike

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varying shear flow in concrete beam.

I have a situation were an existing vertical concrete beam (not a column but a pier with hydrostatic forces) that needs reinforcing. The thought is to scab on a reinforced section the will have tension reinforcement for flexture and shear reinforcement that will be tied back into the compression zone of the existing pier. My question.... does the shear flow at the interface between the two sections ( old and new) vary along the height? All the references that I have consulted gave examples for simply supported steel beams that are welded or bolted. These fasteners were designed based on the support reactions and distrubuted evenly along the interface.

Mike

Sunday, October 19, 2008

Job referral in East SF Bay Area

Greetings, East Bay seismic retrofit wizards:

I may have a job referral for a seismic retrofit project in the Lafayette
area. The concerns are CMU walls not braced at the top (a 4-foot tall band
of windows atop 10-foot high walls) and other issues that may come up after
a bit of destructive exploration is done.

Please contact me off-list if you have experience with this sort of work and
might be interested in the project. There would likely be a fair amount of
construction observation needed, and I'm not close enough to manage the
project effectively.

Thanks,

Thor Matteson
www.shearwalls.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "admin" <admin@seausa.org>
To: <thor@yosemite.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 12:00 AM
Subject: seaint Digest for 18 Oct 2008

>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
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> seaint Digest for 18 Oct 2008
>
> Topics covered in this issue include:
>
> 1: Southern Calif residential Engineers
> by <erik_g@cox.net>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 1 Message:0001 1
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: <erik_g@cox.net>
> To: "seaint" <seaint@seaint.org>
> Subject: Southern Calif residential Engineers
>
> Just wondering how the downturn in the economy has effected your business.
> I
> work at a small eng firm in Orange county and we have almost completely
> run
> out of business. Bids go out but no answer back, and this is to clients
> that
> we usually do business with.
>
> I should mention that we specialize in residential.
>
> Just curious.
>
> Erik Gibbs
>

Re: seaint Digest for 18 Oct 2008

Matthew R. Steiner, P.E., S.E.
Senior Project Engineer
Thornton Tomasetti
2415 Campus Drive, Suite 110
Irvine, CA 92612
T 949.271.3300 F 949.271.3301
D 949.271.3314 M 949.910.8130
MSteiner@ThorntonTomasetti.com
www.ThorntonTomasetti.com

----- Original Message -----
From: admin <admin@seausa.org>
To: Steiner, Matthew
Sent: Sun Oct 19 03:00:09 2008
Subject: seaint Digest for 18 Oct 2008

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                       seaint Digest for 18 Oct 2008

Topics covered in this issue include:

   1: Southern Calif residential Engineers
             by <erik_g@cox.net>

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From: <erik_g@cox.net>
To: "seaint" <seaint@seaint.org>
Subject: Southern Calif residential Engineers

Just wondering how the downturn in the economy has effected your business. I
work at a small eng firm in Orange county and we have almost completely run
out of business. Bids go out but no answer back, and this is to clients that
we usually do business with.

I should mention that we specialize in residential.

Just curious.

Erik Gibbs