Structural Engineering: 2008-12-07

Friday, December 12, 2008

RE: HUD guidelines for stick built homes?

Jim,

They are probably referring to the old HUD Minimum Property Standards. HUD maintained the MPS essentially as the “code” for one- and two-family dwellings up through the 80’s, until CABO started developing the One- and Two-Family Dwelling Code. (Which eventually became the basis for the IRC.)

The last edition of the Minimum Property Standards dates from 1994 and is on-line at http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/sfh/mps/mhsmpsp.cfm. HUD at this point has largely gone to using the IRC (and/or IBC) as the basic requirements, but the introductory material seems to indicate that there are some durability provisions in the MPS that are not in the I-Codes but which should be followed for FHA properties.

Regards,

Gary

Gary J. Ehrlich, PE
Program Manager, Structural Codes & Standards
National Association of Home Builders (NAHB)
1201 15th Street, NW, Washington, DC 20005
ph: 202-266-8545 or 800-368-5242 x8545
fax: 202-266-8369
gehrlich@nahb.com

Attend the 2009 International Builders' Show
January 20-23, 2009, Las Vegas, NV
www.BuildersShow.com

From: Jim Wilson [mailto:wilsonengineers@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 1:36 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: HUD guidelines for stick built homes?

Phone calls for FHA inspections are increasing with this recent mortgage debacle. Some requests are to review stick built home foundations for compliance with HUD guidelines. Is there such a thing? I searched on line at HUDuser and called their help line but haven't gotten any information yet.

Is this a case where overly protective loan originators are making things up or is there such a guideline for stick-built housing?

Jim Wilson

Stroudsburg, PA

HUD guidelines for stick built homes?

Is this a case where overly protective loan originators are making things up or is there such a guideline for stick-built housing?

Jim Wilson

Stroudsburg, PA

re: in-ground pool design

This topic has been discussed a lot on this list, and most of us agree with Dave Fischer that there is a bit of art and perhaps voodoo to pool design….

Every set of pool drawings I have seen in Florida (sandy soil, brg pressure @ 2000psf) is about 5” thick with one layer of #4s or #5s at 12” o.c. each way. If it is a kidney or curved shaped pool, then it more or less acts like a big tensile structure once it is filled with water, and the bars in my opinion are in a little bit of tension but mainly there for crack control. Rectangular pools have some similar behavior, but act more like basement walls with some cantilever retaining wall type action, as well as moment resistance at the corners with the walls doing some horizontal spanning. All in all there is a lot of redundancy and overdesign, if you want to call it that.

My main concern would be during construction that the backfilled soil, if it was compacted prior to the pool being filled with water, would be laterally overloading the wall.

But in my forensic work, almost all the pool problems I have seen are when the owners pump the pool down during our rainy season, or worse during a Tropical Storm, and the pool literally floats and pops out of the pool. I have seen pools come out of the ground more than two feet and take the pool deck with them. So I would suggest having some geotech info like soil types and water table and put CYA notes.

Interesting enough, a friend of a friend is a bit time pool contractor, doing pools that cost more than most people’s houses. He somehow has some generic sets of drawings and details on file at the County and does not have to pull a different structural permit for each job. Now I don’t know what sucker engineer he got to do that but it would not be me.

HTH,

Andrew Kester, PE

Orlando, FL

RE: friction angle of saturated soil.

Based on some recent research I've done due to a project I'm working on (a submerged retaining wall), I didn't find anything quantitative but I did find something qualitative. Based on this research, I found that the angle of internal friction (φ) is reduced by about half for granular materials. If that's the case, then the angle of repose would be 45^o- φ/2/2. So, let's say φ = 26^o. The angle which would resist uplift would be 90-26/2 or 77^o from horizontal. Don't forget, the resisting weight won't be as much either when you consider buoyancy. All in all, I don't think you will gain that much resistance, but if you are not that far off in the first place, maybe it's enough.

Good luck,

T. William (Bill) Allen, S.E.

ALLEN DESIGNS

Consulting Structural Engineers
V (949) 248-8588 • F(949) 209-2509

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Laplante [mailto:Michael.Laplante@cima.ca]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 12:09 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: friction angle of saturated soil.

I am evaluating an underground oil water separator. Basically a large submerged rectangular concrete tank. While considering the dead load contribution of the of the overlying saturated soil on the foundation to resist the hydrostatic pressure, what angle of friction (if any) can I use in order to increase the volume. Currently I am only taking the vertical projected area of saturated soil that is directly above the exterior projection of the foundation.

Thanks

Mike

re: fire damaged slab

I agree with Dave Gaines, the slab and foundations should not have been structurally compromised or damaged badly by your average house fire. Look for spalling or cracking as he stated, though what residential slab-on-grade doesn’t have cracks in it from curing or settlement? The things I would be concerned with if walls collapsed during the fire, whether they were wood or CMU, and did they cause damage to the foundation.

The second thing would be the local/state code requirements. In Florida we would be required to bring the entire structure up to Code requirements for that level of repair. The old foundation may or may not meet the current requirements, and you may have to do some digging to get as-built info.

Andrew Kester, PE

Orlando, FL

Re: Old Steel Sections

Steve and Doug,

Thanks for looking those up and for your offers. I have found the sections mentioned in design guide 15 with the properties. I'll be making a field trip next month and I'll be measuring flanges and webs etc... to determine which of these is the best choice or if I need to calc section properties myself.

No need to send all the properties at this time, I was just hoping that someone had a list of H sections that were 18" deep... sounds like a nomenclature issue with the original design drawings.

thanks again.
-gm

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:43 PM, SGE Structural <sgordin@sgeconsulting.com> wrote:

Gerard,

1945 AISC manual lists WF 18x8-3/4 weighing 70 lbs/ft, and American Standard beams 18x6 at 70 plf.

Email me privately if this is what you need.

V. Steve Gordin, SE
Irvine CA

----- Original Message -----

From: Gerard Madden, SE

To: seaint@seaint.org

Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 12:27

Subject: Old Steel Sections

I have a few structural columns on a circa 1940 structure in Hawaii. The drawings indicate columns as "18H70"

From the AISC Design Guide 15 and other resources, I can't find any information on H shapes deeper than 16". Also, the lighted 16H is 170 plf... so I have a case here where the H shape is deeper than anything I have info on and much lighter than the nearest tabulated shape of similar attributes.

If anyone out there has a resource that may have info on this shape and could kindly forward that info to me, I'd appreciate it.

Also, if you think perhaps another shape would have been used and H is just something that distinguished columns from beams (aka standard practice), your opinion would also be appreciated. I see there are several non H shapes that would match the depth and weight per foot.

gm

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RE: foundation and slab for houses affected by fire

Jim,

Yes, that's been my experience doing fire restoration designs.

So he used a blow torch to swat a fly did he? That's a crying shame. I imagine the contents were more valuable than the structure.

Happy Holidays,

Dave Gaines

Dave Gaines, P.E.

Structural Project Engineer
HDR ONE COMPANY | Many Solutions
251 S. Lake Ave, Suite 1000
Pasadena, CA 91101
T: 626.584.4960
F: 626.584.1750
email: david.gaines@hdrinc.com

From: Jim Getaz [mailto:jgetaz@shockeyprecast.com]
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 5:22 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: foundation and slab for houses affected by fire

Dave,

A few years back, I inspected the remains of a second level slab. Grade up to this level was concrete and block, and contained the owner’s race car shop, where they welded and had flammable fluids. The second level above this slab was all wood and stored his car and truck collection. The fire had burnt the leaves off a tree quite ways away, and there was nothing flammable left of the vehicles, just steel. The only sign I saw of fire damage was a small spalled area of the block of the chimney that went through the second floor, and that was very shallow. There was no pink concrete or block.

He rebuilt, and it is doing just fine.

The fire started when the owner saw a hornet’s nest against the concrete to wood joint and under a concrete slab bridge to the second floor. He torched it to remove them. He was sick at heart.

HTH,

Jim

foundation and slab for houses affected by fire

Dave,

He rebuilt, and it is doing just fine.

The fire started when the owner saw a hornet’s nest against the concrete to wood joint and under a concrete slab bridge to the second floor. He torched it to remove them. He was sick at heart.

HTH,

Jim

Thursday, December 11, 2008

RE: Old Steel Sections

Gerard,

I have a fifth edition AISC (1947), but there is no mention of an H shape. There is a standard WF shape (18WF70) and an American Standard Beam (18I70) that might be possible matches. The WF has an 8.75” flange and the I beam has a 6” flange. If you think that one of these matches, let me know and I will email the rest of the section properties.

HTH,

Doug Mayer, SE

From: Gerard Madden, SE [mailto:gmse4603@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 12:27 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Old Steel Sections

I have a few structural columns on a circa 1940 structure in Hawaii. The drawings indicate columns as "18H70"

From the AISC Design Guide 15 and other resources, I can't find any information on H shapes deeper than 16". Also, the lighted 16H is 170 plf... so I have a case here where the H shape is deeper than anything I have info on and much lighter than the nearest tabulated shape of similar attributes.

If anyone out there has a resource that may have info on this shape and could kindly forward that info to me, I'd appreciate it.

Also, if you think perhaps another shape would have been used and H is just something that distinguished columns from beams (aka standard practice), your opinion would also be appreciated. I see there are several non H shapes that would match the depth and weight per foot.

gm

Old Steel Sections

friction angle of saturated soil.

Thanks

Mike

RE: foundation and slab for houses affected by fire

Dave,

The floor slab and foundation should be reusable after a fire. Fire fighting and falling roof beams usually cause more damage to concrete or masonry floors and walls than the fire. Look for any spalling. Spalling may occur in concrete or masonry during the structural collapse or firefighting efforts.

I can inspect a floor slab or foundation for you. Send me an email or call me if you want more info.

Dave Gaines
(626) 410-3631 cell
gainesengr@earthlink.net <mailto:gainesengr@earthlink.net>

Dave Gaines, P.E.
Structural Project Engineer
________________________________

From: DA ENGINEERING [mailto:dnae@cox.net]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:17 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: foundation and slab for houses affected by fire

Hi
Just wonder how others engineers deal with foundations and slab on grade for houses burned out by fire

1- remove and replace or
2- reuse it

1s there a company inspect and certify that stand behind it
what about the damage for concrete , steel and visqueen?

thanks for input in advance

if you know a company will inspect foundation and slab for burned out houses in Orange county, Los Angeles County, CA
please E-mail me in private or post it

Thanks
Dave A., PE.

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Re: foundation and slab for houses affected by fire

I have done only a couple of these and they were about 15 yrs. ago. We reused the slabs. However my experience is that ususally clients want to make numerous changes in rebuilding footprint and thus it is usually a toss-up about whether to try to reuse portions or not. On one job I had to get a testing company to prove that the concrete was still capable of 2000 psi (which was what we used prior to about 8 yrs. ago. and before we increased to 2500 psi.)

Stan Scholl, P.E.

Laguna Beach, CA

PT Beam Horizontal Construction Joint

List,

For the PT experts out there: a contractor is asking if they can pour a 24" deep PT beam in two lifts. The bottom 12" of the beam is in the slab and the top 12" is an upturn, so it does make sense from a constructability standpoint. However, calculating the horizontal shear flow at mid-height is greatly complicated by the presence of PT. There is also the issue of the dead and stressing ends being near the joint.

Any comments or advice?

Thanks,
Daniel Popp, S.E.

foundation and slab for houses affected by fire

Just wonder how others engineers deal with foundations and slab on grade for houses burned out by fire

1- remove and replace or

2- reuse it

1s there a company inspect and certify that stand behind it

what about the damage for concrete , steel and visqueen?

thanks for input in advance

if you know a company will inspect foundation and slab for burned out houses in Orange county, Los Angeles County, CA

please E-mail me in private or post it

Thanks

Dave A., PE.

Re: Inground Pool Design

Swimming Pools, 4th Edition, Philip H. Perkins seems a good reference.

Hope this helps.

Tejas Gajjar
___________

On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 10:27 PM, Michel Blangy <mblangy@satco-inc.com> wrote:

Seasons Greetings listers,

Would anyone be willing to provide me with the name of a design reference?

Thanks in advance,

Michel Blangy, P.E.
Hermosa Beach, CA

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Wednesday, December 10, 2008

Re: DYNAMICS: Machine Run-Up

On Dec 10, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Bill Polhemus wrote:

> I've got a machine skid with excitation loads from the vendor
> running full-out at 30,000 RPM, and he recommends a linear
> relationship for speeds less than that (I.e. Half the load
> amplitude at 15,000 RPM). Oh, and the skid's sitting on a steel
> platform, which is why this is critical.

Your vendor isn't considering the effects of the supporting
structure. And I'd also quibble with the assumption that the load
varies with the machine speed.

If the loading you're talking about originates with some small
imbalance, the force it generates goes as the rotational speed
squared (the centrifugal force of a rotating mass is Mrw^2 where m is
the mass, r is the distance from the mass to the rotational axis and
w is the rotational speed in rad/sec. But the linear variation with
speed is conservative.

When the machine is mounted to an elastic foundation the loads
imposed on the foundation are greatly magnified at points of
resonance. the magnification can be as high as 50-100 times the
equivalent static load. You can quantify all this by looking through
one of your dynamics textbooks in the chapter of simple harmonic motion.

Don't panic right away though. Most structural frequencies lie
between 1 and 50 Hz. Your machine loading is pretty low in that
frequency range so even though the loading is amplified, you may not
break anything.

30000 rpm is pretty fast. I worked for a guy once who got involved
with spin testing of turbine rotors, which is usually carried out in
a pit. If one of them gets away gyroscopic forces will keep it
upright for quite a while until it slows. Bryant saw one break loose
and he said it just seemed to walk around the test pit and whenever
it touched something like some instrumentation the thing just
vanished. Before slowing down it was walking through concrete block
walls like they weren't even there and flinging stuff all over, like
it was very very angry.

Christopher Wright P.E. |"They couldn't hit an elephant at
chrisw@skypoint.com | this distance" (last words of Gen.
.......................................| John Sedgwick, Spotsylvania
1864)
http://www.skypoint.com/members/chrisw/

period of straight steel stack

I am calculating the period of a straight steel stack. Short fat and heavy, my gut says “rigid” for the wind load definitions, but I thought I would check just to make sure. Equation 5.17 on page 5-6 of “Tubular Steel Structures” from Lincoln Welding there is an equation: T=765E-6 x (H/D)^2 x [(12 x w x D)/t]^.5 . I also have a copy of “Pressure Vessel Handbook” which has a formula T=.0000256 x (H/D)^2 x (w x D /t)^.5 . It appears that the Lincoln formula should be ”7.65E-6 x …..” not “765E-6….” Or the Pressure Vessel Handbook is off. That is a difference of 100. At this point I tend to lean towards the Pressure Vessel Handbook formula due to other formulas in the Lincoln book. But I could be wrong.

Can anyone out there confirm this?

Thanks,

Joe

Joseph R. Grill, PE

RE: DYNAMICS: Machine Run-Up

Bill-
As a force input to the structure from the machine, the vendor is correct. If you look at an eccentric mass, m rotating about a center as creating the force (a reasonable and simple model of the machines dynamic behavior), the momentum, p(t) = mv where m is the eccentric mass and ve is the velocity.

The instantaneous velocity, v=2*pi*f*R where f = frequency, in hz and R = eccentricity in consistent units. The horizontal and vertical velocities can be expressed as:
vh= v* cos(theta) where theta is measured from the vertical axis
vv= v* sin(theta)

Tthe force at any instant is F = m*dv/dt or expressing in horizontal and vertical components:
Fh= -m*v*cos(theta) = -m*dv/dt
Fv= m*v*sin(theta) = m*dv/dt
Both the horizontal and vertical components vary as the frequency but are out of phase with each other by 90 degrees, thus at half the frequency either instantaneous component will be half what it would be at the maximum frequency.

What you will find out as you run up the machine is that you will get resonances at each structure frequency. How bad the resonance depends on how fast you pass the frequency and whether there is any damping. Thus your response will not be linear between 0 and f max but your input to the structure will be.

The most similar practical analogy I can give you is the problem encountered with driving sheet piles with a vibratory hammer. If you hit resonance with the soil, very damaging vibrations can occur.
Hope this helps.

Regards,
Bill Cain, S.E.
Berkeley, CA

> From: bill@polhemus.cc
> To: seaint@seaint.org
> Subject: DYNAMICS: Machine Run-Up
> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:55:49 -0600
>
> Any one ever done a time-history dynamic analysis involving rotating
> equipment "running up" from a standing start?
>
> What did you consider?
>
> I've got a machine skid with excitation loads from the vendor running
> full-out at 30,000 RPM, and he recommends a linear relationship for
> speeds less than that (I.e. Half the load amplitude at 15,000 RPM).
> Oh, and the skid's sitting on a steel platform, which is why this is
> critical.
>
> I'm using STAAD.PRO and I guess I could code it for discrete time-
> stops along the way but I'm not sure how accurate it'd be.
>
> Any other suggestions?
>
> William L. Polhemus, Jr. P.E.
> Via iPhone 3G
>
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DYNAMICS: Machine Run-Up

Any one ever done a time-history dynamic analysis involving rotating
equipment "running up" from a standing start?

What did you consider?

I've got a machine skid with excitation loads from the vendor running
full-out at 30,000 RPM, and he recommends a linear relationship for
speeds less than that (I.e. Half the load amplitude at 15,000 RPM).
Oh, and the skid's sitting on a steel platform, which is why this is
critical.

I'm using STAAD.PRO and I guess I could code it for discrete time-
stops along the way but I'm not sure how accurate it'd be.

Any other suggestions?

William L. Polhemus, Jr. P.E.
Via iPhone 3G

Off topic [was: IBC]

On Dec 10, 2008, at 9:31 AM, Garner, Robert wrote:

> I could use some pills to understand ASCE wind provisions.

Watch out what you ask for. In Minnesota the story is told of Sven
and Ole and the Smart Pills. Read and heed.

Ole was complaining bitterly into his beer about how hard it was to
find work. 'All dose people are lookin' for is some damn brainiac,
and I can never pass none o' dem tests they're always givin.' After
an hour or two listening to Ole grouse and complain, Sven slipped out
of the bar and re-filled a couple of empty aspirin bottles with
rabbit droppings he'd found back of the dump. When he got back to the
bar plopped the bottles in front of Ole. Both had fresh labels:
'Smart Pils ($5)'. 'Whatcha need, Ole, is smart pills, which I got
right here. And they'll only cost ya five bucks a bottle. After two
bottles you'll be passin' dose tests like like a regular Einstein.'

'Jeez, Sven, I dunno--seems like a lotta money. But I really wanna
show dose smart-alecs down at the saw mill that I got what it takes.'
And he hands Sven the ten bucks.

After a week, Ole runs into Sven at the gas station, and he doesn't
look happy. 'Ya know what I think, Mr Sven Smart-Pills? I been takin'
dose pills ya sold me, but yesterday when I looked real close and
took a sniff it seems like dey ain't nothin' but rabbit sh¡t in a
fancy bottle--not no kinda pills at all. Whaddya say about dat?'

Sven puts a friendly arm around Ole's shoulder and said, 'By gosh,
Ole, it's only been a week and you're gettin' smarter already.'

RE: IBC

Sorry, those only came with the 2000 IBC.

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: Garner, Robert [mailto:rgarner@moffattnichol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:32 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: RE: IBC

Oh, I thought those were pills you could take to instantly understand
the new I.B.C. and all its provisions. I could use some pills to
understand ASCE wind provisions.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Christensen [mailto:jason@wcaeng.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:09 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: RE: IBC

Little plastic indexing tabs. Preprinted to each chapter and some
tables.

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary L. Hodgson and Assoc. [mailto:design@hodgsoneng.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:16 AM
To: SEAINT Mail List
Subject: IBC

List,
I browsed Amazon and Abebooks to look for the IBC. There were
references to IBC2006 Turbo Tabs. Can anybody please tell me what they
are?
Gary

RE: IBC

Oh, I thought those were pills you could take to instantly understand
the new I.B.C. and all its provisions. I could use some pills to
understand ASCE wind provisions.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Christensen [mailto:jason@wcaeng.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:09 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: RE: IBC

Little plastic indexing tabs. Preprinted to each chapter and some
tables.

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary L. Hodgson and Assoc. [mailto:design@hodgsoneng.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:16 AM
To: SEAINT Mail List
Subject: IBC

List,
I browsed Amazon and Abebooks to look for the IBC. There were
references to IBC2006 Turbo Tabs. Can anybody please tell me what they
are?
Gary

RE: IBC

Little plastic indexing tabs. Preprinted to each chapter and some
tables.

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary L. Hodgson and Assoc. [mailto:design@hodgsoneng.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:16 AM
To: SEAINT Mail List
Subject: IBC

List,
I browsed Amazon and Abebooks to look for the IBC. There were
references to IBC2006 Turbo Tabs. Can anybody please tell me what they
are?
Gary

Re: Alaska Arctic Engineering Courses

Thanks Rick! The information is helpful.

Do you remember how difficult the final was? Did the course pretty well cover the final exam? I've had some online courses where the final was a trivia game trying to see how much inconsequential facts you could find or remember.

Paul.

On 12/9/08, Rick <mohr2circle@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hey Paul, I took that course through the on line set-up, Class was through Univ of Alaska Anchorage, School of Engineering. ES AC030 was the course name. Professor Hannele Zubeck. On line in weekly parts, with a timed final at the end. Straight forward....

try

www.engr.uaa.alaska.edu/programs/arctic/online/course.cfm

--- On Tue, 12/9/08, Paul Blomberg <paul.blomberg@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Paul Blomberg <paul.blomberg@gmail.com>
Subject: Alaska Arctic Engineering Courses
To: "seaint" <seaint@seaint.org>
Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:33 AM

I'm looking into getting a PE in Alaska (by comity) and was wondering if others in this group know of other alternatives for completing the arctic engineering requirement. I've found the three universities (U of Washington, U of Alaska - Anchorage & Fairbanks) that offer courses but am interested in knowing if anyone knows if any courses are available to be taken remotely.

This is going to be an expensive license if I need to take a week off to attend a University course at a remote location. Any alternatives?

Paul.

Phoenix, AZ

IBC

List,
I browsed Amazon and Abebooks to look for the IBC. There were
references to IBC2006 Turbo Tabs. Can anybody please tell me what they are?
Gary

Tuesday, December 9, 2008

RE: Pressure treatment of wood

Eric-
It is important to understand how it is to be used. The AWPA U1 Standard covers a variety of Use Classes (UCx). Some, e.g., UC2, allow a material like Strandguard, which is intended for sheltered locations like a damp sill plate to such classes as the UC5x series which allow use in brackish or salt water and adjacent to the mud line, for which Strandguard will not be appropriate.
Regards,
Bill Cain, S.E.
Berkeley, CA

Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 11:58:35 -0800
From: d.topete73@gmail.com
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: Pressure treatment of wood

Well, i remember when i built my backyard deck applying a treatment by JASCO(?) which was intended to provide a similar effect on the PT wood.

The other option is to specify Strandguard (or equiv) which is a PT manufactured LSL by TrusJoist/iLevel/Weyerhauser, intended for sill plate usage. Good Luck.

On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 10:46 AM, <erik_g@cox.net> wrote:

Does anyone have any information about the pressure treatment of wood.

Per the CBC 2304.11 I specified that the wood must be "naturally durable or preservative treated I.A.W. AWPA U1 standards. Well the contractor bought some paint that is intended to be put on the end of wood members that are already treated, once it is cut.

So can wood actually be treated in the field?

Thanks
Erik Gibbs
Structures Inc
Laguna Beach, Ca
949-715-0775

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RE: RE: Prestressing documents related to Cable Stayed Bridge Project

Nitin,

Not really my area. Just aware that the VSL literature, seems to be fairly
comprehensive: slinging cables and tensioning them is a specialist area of
activity and VSL is a specialist in that area.

From the little I know you need clauses requiring measurement of extension
and not relying on load cells. Especially important for prestress cables
hidden from sight in ducts in the deck, which may get caught up. The cables
used for the stays no doubt have other issues.

Either case it is a specialist area: some of the technologies and tooling
are proprietary: and therefore capability is restricted to certain
suppliers. So really need to check availability of suitable suppliers and
work with them.

Beyond that check catalogue of national standards (SAA, BSI, ANSI etc...),
and clauses in national specification (NATSPEC) system if available, along
with publications from specialist industry associations.

Design without proper consideration of manufacturing and construction
capability is "over-the-wall-design", and can lead to a great many problems
and delays down the track. So as I say it is preferable to work with
potential suppliers, find common capability, before imposing anything which
limits to a single supplier. Which may mean redesign of the bridge to match
the common available capability.

Not wishing to be disrespectful but the request for such specification
documents tends to suggest the chief engineer on the project lacks the
required expertise. The public employ's engineers on the basis the engineer
knows what needs to go in the specification.

To get someone with the appropriate expertise on the list to assist: really
need to make a request slightly differently than: "please let us have".

Try being more specific about the issues you are trying to control and the
concerns which you have. Doing so demonstrates your understanding of the
problems, and gives list members confidence they are not about to assist you
to get one step closer into trouble. Plus it gives everyone else the
opportunity to learn, and the discussion will be there for future reference.

Regards
Conrad Harrison
B.Tech (mfg & mech), MIIE, gradTIEAust
mailto:sch.tectonic@bigpond.com
Adelaide
South Australia

Re: Alaska Arctic Engineering Courses

Hey Paul, I took that course through the on line set-up, Class was through Univ of Alaska Anchorage, School of Engineering. ES AC030 was the course name. Professor Hannele Zubeck. On line in weekly parts, with a timed final at the end. Straight forward....

try

www.engr.uaa.alaska.edu/programs/arctic/online/course.cfm

--- On Tue, 12/9/08, Paul Blomberg <paul.blomberg@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Paul Blomberg <paul.blomberg@gmail.com>
Subject: Alaska Arctic Engineering Courses
To: "seaint" <seaint@seaint.org>
Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:33 AM

I'm looking into getting a PE in Alaska (by comity) and was wondering if others in this group know of other alternatives for completing the arctic engineering requirement. I've found the three universities (U of Washington, U of Alaska - Anchorage & Fairbanks) that offer courses but am interested in knowing if anyone knows if any courses are available to be taken remotely.

This is going to be an expensive license if I need to take a week off to attend a University course at a remote location. Any alternatives?

Paul.

Phoenix, AZ

RE: Alaska Arctic Engineering Courses

And you will need to budget for their Continuing Education requirements.

No suggestions on a remote course, sorry. I took the one at UW.

Bob Garner S.E.

From: Paul Blomberg [mailto:paul.blomberg@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:34 AM
To: seaint
Subject: Alaska Arctic Engineering Courses

I'm looking into getting a PE in Alaska (by comity) and was wondering if others in this group know of other alternatives for completing the arctic engineering requirement. I've found the three universities (U of Washington, U of Alaska - Anchorage & Fairbanks) that offer courses but am interested in knowing if anyone knows if any courses are available to be taken remotely.

This is going to be an expensive license if I need to take a week off to attend a University course at a remote location. Any alternatives?

Paul.

Phoenix, AZ

Re: Alaska Arctic Engineering Courses

Paul,

I am not sure about on-line course (it would be great if they exist) but if you work for a large company where multiple engineers are getting their Alaska licence or you can team up with a couple of other local companies, the University of Alaska many years ago would do a very condensed onsite (i.e. at your company or local venue) Arctic Engineering Course which I believe was called "Cold Regions Engineering Short Course".

Also, if you look very close at the Alaska PE regulations (again several years ago) they would accept the submittal of a self authored arctic related technical paper (i.e. pick a topic, do some good library research, plagiarized several good sources, put in a fancy binder, and send it up with your application). Something worth looking into if it is still an option.

By the way, the short course I attended was excellent and if you can I would strongly recommend it. One of the things I learned was that too much attic insulation can actually cause the dew point to occur inside the building which can cause all sort of water damage (apparently a big issue in the big box type buildings).

Thomas Hunt, S.E.
Fluor

"Paul Blomberg" <paul.blomberg@gmail.com>
12/09/2008 08:33 AM
Please respond to seaint

To	seaint <seaint@seaint.org>
cc
Subject	Alaska Arctic Engineering Courses

------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person  or entity to which it is addressed and may contain  proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material.   If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are  hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination,  distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon  this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please  contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.    Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual  sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company.   ------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Alaska Arctic Engineering Courses

Paul,

On checking further I find that University of Alberta has some affiliation with University of Phoenix, a fact you may find useful.

Regards,

H. Daryl Richardson

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Blomberg

To: seaint

Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 9:33 AM

Subject: Alaska Arctic Engineering Courses

I'm looking into getting a PE in Alaska (by comity) and was wondering if others in this group know of other alternatives for completing the arctic engineering requirement. I've found the three universities (U of Washington, U of Alaska - Anchorage & Fairbanks) that offer courses but am interested in knowing if anyone knows if any courses are available to be taken remotely.

This is going to be an expensive license if I need to take a week off to attend a University course at a remote location. Any alternatives?

Paul.

Phoenix, AZ

Re: Alaska Arctic Engineering Courses

You Betcha. You could go to Russia and look across the water at Alaska. That should be more than enough qualification to do most anything (I was told repeatedly that this is the case) :-)

-gm

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:33 AM, Paul Blomberg <paul.blomberg@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm looking into getting a PE in Alaska (by comity) and was wondering if others in this group know of other alternatives for completing the arctic engineering requirement. I've found the three universities (U of Washington, U of Alaska - Anchorage & Fairbanks) that offer courses but am interested in knowing if anyone knows if any courses are available to be taken remotely.

This is going to be an expensive license if I need to take a week off to attend a University course at a remote location. Any alternatives?

Paul.

Phoenix, AZ

Re: Alaska Arctic Engineering Courses

Paul,

The University of Alberta, www.uofa.ca , does have courses related to the Arctic. I have no idea whether they are related to what you want or not; but you might want to check it out.

Regards,

H. Daryl Richardson

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Blomberg

To: seaint

Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 9:33 AM

Subject: Alaska Arctic Engineering Courses

I'm looking into getting a PE in Alaska (by comity) and was wondering if others in this group know of other alternatives for completing the arctic engineering requirement. I've found the three universities (U of Washington, U of Alaska - Anchorage & Fairbanks) that offer courses but am interested in knowing if anyone knows if any courses are available to be taken remotely.

This is going to be an expensive license if I need to take a week off to attend a University course at a remote location. Any alternatives?

Paul.

Phoenix, AZ

RE: Alaska Arctic Engineering Courses

UAA offers the class online.

http://www.uaa.alaska.edu/records/catalogs/catalog2008-2009.cfm

Bill Scott

From: Paul Blomberg [mailto:paul.blomberg@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 7:34 AM
To: seaint
Subject: Alaska Arctic Engineering Courses

This is going to be an expensive license if I need to take a week off to attend a University course at a remote location. Any alternatives?

Paul.

Phoenix, AZ

RE: Alaska Arctic Engineering Courses

UAA offers the class online.

http://www.uaa.alaska.edu/records/catalogs/catalog2008-2009.cfm

Bill Scott

From: Paul Blomberg [mailto:paul.blomberg@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 7:34 AM
To: seaint
Subject: Alaska Arctic Engineering Courses

This is going to be an expensive license if I need to take a week off to attend a University course at a remote location. Any alternatives?

Paul.

Phoenix, AZ

Re: RE: Prestressing documents related to Cable Stayed Bridge Project

Conrad,

Actually, i need documets like QAP & methos statment & Work Procedure for prestressing, Cable Stay, Formtrvellor etc .

Regards,
Nitin

On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 Conrad Harrison wrote :
>Nittsi,
>
>
>
>Suggest taking a look at documentation/handbooks produced by VSL
>international.
>
>
>
>Regards
>
>Conrad Harrison
>
>B.Tech (mfg & mech), MIIE, gradTIEAust
>
>mailto:sch.tectonic@bigpond.com
>
>Adelaide
>
>South Australia
>
>
>

Alaska Arctic Engineering Courses

This is going to be an expensive license if I need to take a week off to attend a University course at a remote location. Any alternatives?

Paul.

Phoenix, AZ

RE: FW: ASCE wind on parapets

We don’t add them for each parapet, sorry if I confused you. Windward is on the ‘front’ parapet, and leeward is on the ‘back’ parapet. We add them only as the front and back loads.

Jason

WCA Structural Engineering, Inc.

From: Michael Liew [mailto:michaelliew4@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:29 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: FW: ASCE wind on parapets

The 1.5 for windward parapet and the 1.0 for leeward parapet, each one of these coefficients, has already accounted for the "front and back effect of a single parapet's wind pressure on MWFRS". ASCE 7-05 commentary page 301 has addressed this.

Michael.

On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 3:32 PM, Jason Christensen <jason@wcaeng.com> wrote:

Just a note, adding them is for the MFWRS. When designing for C&C they would be separated.

Jason

WCA Structural Engineering, Inc.

From: Jason Christensen [mailto:jason@wcaeng.com]
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 4:05 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: RE: ASCE wind on parapets

We used to hold them separate, but we were called on it on a couple of peer reviews. We now add the two loads.

Looking at example 3 of the "Guide to the Use of the Wind Load Provisions of ASCE 7-02" (granted old code, but it is still the same provisions) the two loads appear to be combined. As I was taught, windward = pressure, leeward = suction, in the end they act in the same direction.

Jason Christensen, S.E.

Project Engineer

WCA Structural Engineering, Inc.

From: Michael Liew [mailto:michaelliew4@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 3:32 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: ASCE wind on parapets

Joe,

I use 1.5 for the windward parapet and 1.0 for the leeward parapet. I don't combine them.

Michael Liew

On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 1:35 PM, Joe Goldbronn <jgoldbronn@barrish.com> wrote:

How are the wind forces on parapets to be applied to the MWFRS (section 6.5.12.2.4)? Are you to apply both the +1.5*q windward and the -1.0*q leeward pressures onto the same parapet? This would in essence create a 2.5*q total force on each parapet of a structure. This seems to be a larger force than I would expect for the parapets which makes me wonder if I am interpreting the code correctly.

Joe Goldbronn, PE

Re: Moment Resisting Frame

Thanks for all the who responded and shared their own opinions.

All the best,

Mondo

From: Harold Sprague <spraguehope@hotmail.com>
To: seaint@seaint.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2008 2:53:13 PM
Subject: RE: Moment Resisting Frame

I do not have this book. It is difficult to mix and match codes of various time periods. In general in areas of low seismic demand, it is permissible to use an ordinary moment frame. That said, the ordinary moment frames of today are not the same as those of previous codes.

Again, I am not familiar with the book that you have referenced. But in general, you should be fine with an ordinary moment frame.

Personally, I like to make sure that I have proper embedment with the bottom bars to assure a measure of ductility just to account for concrete shrinkage.

Regards, Harold Sprague

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 20:41:09 -0800
From: engr_mondo@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Moment Resisting Frame
To: seaint@seaint.org

Harold,

I'm referring to the recently published by The Concrete Society---Guide to the Design of Concrete Structures in the Arabian Peninsula (http://www.concrete.org.uk/bookshop/detail.aspx?ID=1222). I want to use this recomendation together with UBC 1997 seismic parameters:

Ca= 0.060 (minimum from the above guide for Sc soil profile in Zone AG)
Cv= 0.083 (minimum from the above guide for Sc soil profile Zone AG)
R= ? (this is my question--what type of "moment resisting frame" should be using in Zone AG)?
I= 1.0

Regards,

Mondo

From: Harold Sprague <spraguehope@hotmail.com>
To: seaint@seaint.org
Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 10:54:49 PM
Subject: RE: Moment Resisting Frame

Mondo,
Apparently you are referencing an older code. The use of Rw and the term seismic "zones" has been discontinued for quite some time.

That said, if you are in a region of low seismic risk as set forth in ACI 318-05 Section 21.2.1.2, you do not need to design for the seismic provisions of Chapter 21. But you may have some detailing to which you need to comply which is listed in Section 21.2.1.2.

Regards, Harold Sprague

Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 19:40:33 -0800
From: engr_mondo@yahoo.com
Subject: Moment Resisting Frame
To: seaint@seaint.org

All,

For the design of concrete structures located in the arabian peninsula- what does other consider for the "moment resisting frames-Rw" (ordinary or intermediate?) specifically in Zone "0" areas. Also, there's a guide to use a minimum Zone to this areas, termed as "ZAG" with equivalent Ca and Cv values (again using moment resisting frames, is it ordinary or intermediate?). Thanks for any advice.

Regards,

Mondo

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