Structural Engineering: 2009-02-22

Saturday, February 28, 2009

Re: Florida License Renewal

On Feb 28, 2009, at 2:52 AM, Scott E Maxwell wrote:

> That may be 100% true, but people still do it. And if someone does
> it on a
> website that you want or need to deal with, then you have to live
> with it
> and some how adjust for it.
Typical engineering problem--establishing the balance between the
practicable and the ideal. Been at that for years. I've already done
the workaround--the USPS is still alive and well. But I can't help
seeking out the ideal. After 22 years of running Macs, I'm afraid
I've lost some tolerance for third-best. ;->

So my Florida registration is extended for another two years. After
that, maybe I'll retire.

Christopher Wright P.E. |"They couldn't hit an elephant at
chrisw@skypoint.com | this distance" (last words of Gen.
.......................................| John Sedgwick, Spotsylvania
1864)
http://www.skypoint.com/members/chrisw/

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Re: Florida License Renewal

That may be 100% true, but people still do it. And if someone does it on a
website that you want or need to deal with, then you have to live with it
and some how adjust for it.

Regards,

Scott
Adrian, MI

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:39:49 -0600, Christopher Wright
<chrisw@skypoint.com> wrote:
> On Feb 27, 2009, at 8:07 AM, Scott E Maxwell wrote:
>
>> It is certainly possible that it is just "crappy coding", but I
>> suspect it
>> is that the site was programmed with IE specifically in mind and
>> makes use
>> of some of IE's unique "things" (which one could call "crappy
>> coding" as
>> well...I do)
> Every single guide to web site development I've ever seen warns
> against browser-specific coding. Which tells me they had an amateur
> do it to save money. The web site practically telegraphs 'amateur
> hour' at login. The ASME has been doing that sort of thing for years,
> and it's contributed heavily to most of their resounding on-line flops.
>
> Christopher Wright P.E. |"They couldn't hit an elephant at
> chrisw@skypoint.com | this distance" (last words of Gen.
> .......................................| John Sedgwick, Spotsylvania
> 1864)
> http://www.skypoint.com/members/chrisw/
>
>
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> * send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> * site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
>

Friday, February 27, 2009

Electrocuting elephants was Re: some code issues

I believe that AC was used by Edison to electrocute an elephant. I'm not
sure if the elephant was dangerous or Edison thought it would be a good
way to demonstrate the danger of AC compared to DC.

See Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topsy_(elephant)

or Wired:

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2008/01/dayintech_0104

Doug Mayer wrote:
>
> I believe Edison was an ardent supporter of direct current, as opposed
> to Tesla and Westinghouse who developed and advocated for alternating
> current.
>
> Doug Mayer, SE
>
> *From:* Dennis Wish [mailto:dennis.wish@verizon.net]
> *Sent:* Friday, February 27, 2009 2:24 PM
> *To:* seaint@seaint.org
> *Subject:* RE: some code issues
>
> But consider how you might try to start your car if it was not for the
> work done by Tesla. Edison chose to power the cities using Alternating
> Current. Tesla is the father of the modern battery – direct current.
> Almost everything we run today has some form of Tesla's greatest
> achievement in it – batteries and rechargeable batteries. It may be
> that during Tesla's career who was competing for the contract against
> Edison, Tesla did not see beyond the Van der Graff Generator for
> displaying static charge.
>
> Regards,
>
> *Dennis*
>
> *From:* SGE Structural [mailto:sgordin@sgeconsulting.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 26, 2009 4:06 PM
> *To:* Seaint
> *Subject:* some code issues
>
> Google's Quote of the Day:
>
> Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and
> they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build
> a structure which has no relation to reality.
> Nikola Tesla <http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/34995.html>
>

RE: some code issues

I believe Edison was an ardent supporter of direct current, as opposed to Tesla and Westinghouse who developed and advocated for alternating current.

Doug Mayer, SE

From: Dennis Wish [mailto:dennis.wish@verizon.net]
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 2:24 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: RE: some code issues

But consider how you might try to start your car if it was not for the work done by Tesla. Edison chose to power the cities using Alternating Current. Tesla is the father of the modern battery – direct current. Almost everything we run today has some form of Tesla’s greatest achievement in it – batteries and rechargeable batteries. It may be that during Tesla’s career who was competing for the contract against Edison, Tesla did not see beyond the Van der Graff Generator for displaying static charge.

Regards,

Dennis

From: SGE Structural [mailto:sgordin@sgeconsulting.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 4:06 PM
To: Seaint
Subject: some code issues

Google's Quote of the Day:

Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality.
Nikola Tesla

RE: some code issues

Regards,

Dennis

From: SGE Structural [mailto:sgordin@sgeconsulting.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 4:06 PM
To: Seaint
Subject: some code issues

Google's Quote of the Day:

Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality.
Nikola Tesla

Standing Seam Metal Roofing Wind Uplift Calculations

Oshin:

The AISI Code has specific guidelines. And, AISI also publishes a guide specific to this subject (Design Guide CF97-1). In summary, the panels themselves are calculated in accordance with the AISI code. Where the connections rely on mechanical interlock, or slip-type mechanical anchors, testing is required in accordance with ASTM E1592. In some jurisdictions (Florida, Texas) a test is required regardless of the attachment method due to the requirements in IBC Section 1504.3.2. The IBC has an exception that references the AISI requirements, which only requires testing for connection methods that cannot be designed, but some locals require the test anyway.

If you need an E1592 test or want to subcontract the calcs, my company is accredited to run the tests and we have experience with the calcs.

Regards,

Eric Tompos, P.E., S.E.

NTA, Inc.

This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by MailMarshal

Re: Florida License Renewal

On Feb 27, 2009, at 8:07 AM, Scott E Maxwell wrote:

> It is certainly possible that it is just "crappy coding", but I
> suspect it
> is that the site was programmed with IE specifically in mind and
> makes use
> of some of IE's unique "things" (which one could call "crappy
> coding" as
> well...I do)
Every single guide to web site development I've ever seen warns
against browser-specific coding. Which tells me they had an amateur
do it to save money. The web site practically telegraphs 'amateur
hour' at login. The ASME has been doing that sort of thing for years,
and it's contributed heavily to most of their resounding on-line flops.

Re: FL PE renewal

On Feb 27, 2009, at 9:27 AM, christopher.banbury@gmail.com wrote:

> suspect the main problem is that there are probably thousands of
> engineer's trying to use the online system to renew their license
> today.
I'm sure that aggravated many things, but the CE problem wasn't one
of them, according to the telephone help guy.

> The system worked fine earlier this week. The only glitch was that
> there are several points in the process where you are supposed to
> click a "Back" button (not the navigation "Back"). The button
> doesn't work and in one case it will tell you that it aborted a
> double charge on your credit card, but it seemed to work ok anyway.
I'm certain it operated OK 2 years ago, when I would have accessed it
with Safari.

FL PE renewal

i suspect the main problem is that there are probably thousands of engineer's trying to use the online system to renew their license today.
The system worked fine earlier this week. The only glitch was that there are several points in the process where you are supposed to click a "Back" button (not the navigation "Back"). The button doesn't work and in one case it will tell you that it aborted a double charge on your credit card, but it seemed to work ok anyway.

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 15:29:33 -0600, Christopher Wright
<chrisw@skypoint.com> wrote:
> has anyhone on the list has problems with the Florida license renewal =20
> web site? I've been f=C3=A5ting around all day with apparently every =20
> operation turning into a project, lately I can't get through the =20
> continuing ed class registration requirements because the web site =20
> seems to hang both with Safari and Firefox. Am I the only person =20
> having problems with this? Could I maybe just mail them some hard-copy?
>=20

Re: Florida License Renewal

It is certainly possible that it is just "crappy coding", but I suspect it
is that the site was programmed with IE specifically in mind and makes use
of some of IE's unique "things" (which one could call "crappy coding" as
well...I do). And while Firefox is pretty good at handling many such "IE
only" sites, it is not perfect. Safari DEFINITELY chokes on those sites
most of the time.

Regards,

Scott
Adrian, MI

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 23:53:46 -0600, Christopher Wright
<chrisw@skypoint.com> wrote:
> On Feb 26, 2009, at 7:46 PM, Scott E Maxwell wrote:
>
>> Do you have a Windoze computer with IE on it to try?
> I tried Firefox and the newest version of Safari and an old (although
> the latest Mac OSX version--5.2) of IE. Everything but the IE version
> hung when it came time to look up the course provider. Interestingly
> the IE version displayed something, but it was Chinese. I swear to
> God. I did find a workaround, though--pencil and paper sent this
> afternoon by regular mail hand cancelled to make sure I beat the
> deadline. The Florida Engineering Board is going to get an earfull in
> the morning. I wasted most of a day trying to plow through their
> tortuous voicemail system and the web page (including a password issue).
>
>> Usually FireFox does
>> enough a job mimicking IE that it would work (Safari has trouble
>> with many
>> sites specifically done for IE), but there are still sites that IE
>> does
>> better on.
> Firefox is really straight Netscape under the skin. There's just no
> excuse for the web page not to work at least with Firefox. I claim
> someone did a cobbled up job coding that site and I claim it sucks.
>
> Christopher Wright P.E. |"They couldn't hit an elephant at
> chrisw@skypoint.com | this distance" (last words of Gen.
> .......................................| John Sedgwick, Spotsylvania
> 1864)
> http://www.skypoint.com/members/chrisw/
>
>
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> * send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> * site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
>

RE: FACI Title?

Thanks!

-----Original Message-----
From: Alexander Bausk [mailto:bauskas@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 8:06 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: FACI Title?

Fellow membership is awarded by a nomination from either a nomination
committee or 5 ACI members. Details here:

http://www.concrete.org/MEMBERS/mem_info_fellows.htm

On 2/27/09, Richard Calvert <RichardC@lbbe.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> So then, is it an honorary title for which there is no formal method of
> obtaining? I ask because it seems that there is little in the way of
> concrete certification for designers - it all seems to be based around
> manufacturers and field personnel.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> From: Rich Lewis [mailto:seaint04@lewisengineering.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 7:54 AM
> To: seaint@seaint.org
> Subject: RE: FACI Title?
>
>
>
>
> I believe it stands for 'Fellow', an advanced member to[ic to those who
> participate immensely in the industry.
>
>
>
> Rich
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Richard Calvert [mailto:RichardC@lbbe.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 6:29 AM
> To: seaint@seaint.org
> Subject: FACI Title?
>
>
>
> While looking for ACI seminars I happened to take note that all of the
> professors had the title FACI behind their names (i.e. John Doe, PhD, PE,
> SE, FACI, etc.) which is a title that I was previously unaware of, and after
> quite a bit of Googling I still don't know what it means or, much less, how
> it is obtained. Do any of you have this information?
>
>
>
> Richard Calvert
>
>

--
Alexander Bausk
CAD manager, Structural engineer at
Nuclear Engineering&Research Lab
Dnipropetrovsk, Ukraine

Re: FACI Title?

Fellow membership is awarded by a nomination from either a nomination
committee or 5 ACI members. Details here:

http://www.concrete.org/MEMBERS/mem_info_fellows.htm

On 2/27/09, Richard Calvert <RichardC@lbbe.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> So then, is it an honorary title for which there is no formal method of
> obtaining? I ask because it seems that there is little in the way of
> concrete certification for designers – it all seems to be based around
> manufacturers and field personnel.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> From: Rich Lewis [mailto:seaint04@lewisengineering.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 7:54 AM
> To: seaint@seaint.org
> Subject: RE: FACI Title?
>
>
>
>
> I believe it stands for 'Fellow', an advanced member to[ic to those who
> participate immensely in the industry.
>
>
>
> Rich
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Richard Calvert [mailto:RichardC@lbbe.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 6:29 AM
> To: seaint@seaint.org
> Subject: FACI Title?
>
>
>
> While looking for ACI seminars I happened to take note that all of the
> professors had the title FACI behind their names (i.e. John Doe, PhD, PE,
> SE, FACI, etc.) which is a title that I was previously unaware of, and after
> quite a bit of Googling I still don't know what it means or, much less, how
> it is obtained. Do any of you have this information?
>
>
>
> Richard Calvert
>
>

--
Alexander Bausk
CAD manager, Structural engineer at
Nuclear Engineering&Research Lab
Dnipropetrovsk, Ukraine

Re: FACI Title?

Richard,

From my googling, I suggest it means "Fellow of ACI" since there is
also a "FASCE", the meaning of which is pretty much obvious.

Now I assume I am endorsed to use a "SMACI" behind my name, a "Student
member of ACI".
Cool and free of charge it is.

Regards,
Alex.

On 2/27/09, Richard Calvert <RichardC@lbbe.com> wrote:
>
> While looking for ACI seminars I happened to take note that all of the
> professors had the title FACI behind their names (i.e. John Doe, PhD, PE,
> SE, FACI, etc.) which is a title that I was previously unaware of, and after
> quite a bit of Googling I still don't know what it means or, much less, how
> it is obtained. Do any of you have this information?
>
> Richard Calvert
>

--
Alexander Bausk
CAD manager, Structural engineer at
Nuclear Engineering&Research Lab
Dnipropetrovsk, Ukraine

RE: FACI Title?

So then, is it an honorary title for which there is no formal method of obtaining? I ask because it seems that there is little in the way of concrete certification for designers – it all seems to be based around manufacturers and field personnel.

From: Rich Lewis [mailto:seaint04@lewisengineering.com]
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 7:54 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: RE: FACI Title?

I believe it stands for ‘Fellow’, an advanced member to[ic to those who participate immensely in the industry.

Rich

From: Richard Calvert [mailto:RichardC@lbbe.com]
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 6:29 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: FACI Title?

While looking for ACI seminars I happened to take note that all of the professors had the title FACI behind their names (i.e. John Doe, PhD, PE, SE, FACI, etc.) which is a title that I was previously unaware of, and after quite a bit of Googling I still don’t know what it means or, much less, how it is obtained. Do any of you have this information?

Richard Calvert

RE: FACI Title?

I believe it stands for ‘Fellow’, an advanced member to[ic to those who participate immensely in the industry.

Rich

From: Richard Calvert [mailto:RichardC@lbbe.com]
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 6:29 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: FACI Title?

Richard Calvert

RE: Concrete Bench With Wall

Tarek,

Thank you for this tip. I was using a hook development length table from an
ACI design manual. It didn't reference additional information. Its' good
to know.

Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: Tarek Mokhtar [mailto:Tarekmokhtar@earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:16 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: Concrete Bench With Wall

Rich,

You can reduce the developemnt length of the hooked #4 bar by the
side cover factor(.7)
and excess reinforcemnt. with the minimum being 6". look at ACI 12.5

Tarek Mokhtar, SE
Laguna Beach, Ca

>I've been asked to design a retaining wall with a built-in bench. The wall
>retains about 6 feet of soil. The bench wants to be on the low side of the
>wall. The architect would like to cantilever the bench out from the face
>of wall.
>
>I'm looking at this two ways. One way would be to form the seat with the
>wall and pour it together monolithic. I haven't done ornamental type work.
> I see this as a real pain to form the wall and seat together. Also, the
>seat would need a top surface form and the question I have is how to assure
>the seat part of the formwork was filled sufficiently with concrete while
>pouring. I thought about putting a construction joint in the wall at the
>top of the seat elevation. I don't like the idea of two separate pours.
>Any ideas as to how to detail a monolithic seat and wall?
>
>My other though is to pour the wall separate and then pour the seat. This
>is back to 2 pours. The challenge I see is how to develop the bars
>sticking out for the seat. I need full moment capacity but I do not have
>enough wall to develop the bar by the time it reaches the face of wall.
>Any ideas as to how to get a full bar developed in the wall? If there was
>no bench I could use an 8" thick wall. I could justify going to 12" thick
>if I needed it. This still doesn't develop a hooked #4 bar with adequate
>cover.
>
>Thanks for your insight.
>
>Rich
>
>
>
>******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
>* Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
>*
>* This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
>* Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
>* subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
>*
>* http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
>*
>* Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
>* send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
>* without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
>* site at: http://www.seaint.org
>******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

FACI Title?

Richard Calvert

Thursday, February 26, 2009

Re: Florida License Renewal

On Feb 26, 2009, at 7:46 PM, Scott E Maxwell wrote:

> Do you have a Windoze computer with IE on it to try?
I tried Firefox and the newest version of Safari and an old (although
the latest Mac OSX version--5.2) of IE. Everything but the IE version
hung when it came time to look up the course provider. Interestingly
the IE version displayed something, but it was Chinese. I swear to
God. I did find a workaround, though--pencil and paper sent this
afternoon by regular mail hand cancelled to make sure I beat the
deadline. The Florida Engineering Board is going to get an earfull in
the morning. I wasted most of a day trying to plow through their
tortuous voicemail system and the web page (including a password issue).

> Usually FireFox does
> enough a job mimicking IE that it would work (Safari has trouble
> with many
> sites specifically done for IE), but there are still sites that IE
> does
> better on.
Firefox is really straight Netscape under the skin. There's just no
excuse for the web page not to work at least with Firefox. I claim
someone did a cobbled up job coding that site and I claim it sucks.

Re: ICF Shear Wall in SDC C

Forgive me as I don't have my codes with me, so I am going from memory.

The Vu<phi*Vc/2 to my knowledge is NOT a seismic requirement, but rather a
general shear requirement. Thus, to my knowledge, it applies to ALL
reinforced concrete elements in shear whether there is seismic or not as
long as it is an "engineered" solution (i.e. per IBC/ACI 318). The IRC is
a prescriptive code and generally speaking ACI 318 does not really apply.

Thus, if you design it per the IBC, then you are into the ACI 318
requirements, which would include he Vu<phi*Vc/2 bit. If you design per
the IRC, then you would not need to follow any ACI 318 provisions unless
they are specifically called for in the IRC.

Regards,

Scott
Adrian, MI

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:24:34 -0700, "Joseph R. Grill"
<jrgrill@cableone.net> wrote:
> I am working on a residence in a SDC C using an ICF concrete form which
> gives a 6" thick concrete wall. IBC 2006 says that seismic design is not
> required in a SDC C. ASCE 7-05 says that a plain concrete shear wall is
> not
> allowed in a SDC C ( a seismic requirement) and an "ordinary reinforced
> structural wall" would be required. It appears that most if not all the
> shear walls will be subject to a shear Vu<phiVc/2. The IRC allows
> horizontal reinforcing less than the .0020 Ag required in chapter 11 of
the
> ACI for ICF walls.
>
>
>
> My thought boils down to this. Since seismic design is not required for
a
> residence in a SDC C the minimum horizontal reinforcing requirements of
ACI
> chapter 11 are not required, and I can use (if the numbers work out for
> applied shear to the walls) the minimum reinforcing allowed by the IRC,
> which I think is #4@48" o.c. if the shear Vu does turn out to be less
than
> phi Vc/2.
>
>
>
> Agree?
>
>
>
> Joseph R. Grill, PE
>
> Verde Valley Engineering, PLLC
>
> email: VVEng@cableone.net
>

Re: Florida License Renewal

Do you have a Windoze computer with IE on it to try? Usually FireFox does
enough a job mimicking IE that it would work (Safari has trouble with many
sites specifically done for IE), but there are still sites that IE does
better on.

Regards,

Scott
Adrian, MI

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 15:29:33 -0600, Christopher Wright
<chrisw@skypoint.com> wrote:
> has anyhone on the list has problems with the Florida license renewal
> web site? I've been fåting around all day with apparently every
> operation turning into a project, lately I can't get through the
> continuing ed class registration requirements because the web site
> seems to hang both with Safari and Firefox. Am I the only person
> having problems with this? Could I maybe just mail them some hard-copy?
>
> Christopher Wright P.E. |"They couldn't hit an elephant at
> chrisw@skypoint.com | this distance" (last words of Gen.
> .......................................| John Sedgwick, Spotsylvania
> 1864)
> http://www.skypoint.com/members/chrisw/
>
>
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> * send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> * site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
>

Re: Shear in NDS

Which version of RISA are you using? And how do you model the members
(i.e. material and section sets)?

I ask because newer versions of RISA have glulam materials that allow you
to actually do glulam members rather than having to do a "custom wood
species". The "custom wood species" in older versions could be used to
"jury rig" a glulam, but you have to be careful as I believe RISA treated
those as regular lumber NOT glulams.

And current versions CAN handle fractions...older versions could only do
nominal dimensions...and if I remember could do integer dimensions. More
current versions can do full sawn (i.e. actual dimensions, including
fractions...use them all the time when doing timber framing) dimensions.

If you want, feel free "offline" to send me your model and I will take a
look at it. You can also have RISA support take a look at the model. RISA
has _VERY_ good support. When I have gotten strange results, they have
always been more than helpful in figuring the problem with the model. You
might need to be current on your support agreement, however.

Regards,

Scott
Adrian, MI

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 15:42:55 -0500, "Timothy Hilton"
<thilton@lhcengineers.com> wrote:
> Hello All,
>
>
>
> I'm new on the list and I've been enjoying reading it. Here is my
> question.
>
>
>
>
> I'm working on an outdoor pavilion/shelter that covers three basketball
> courts. We are framing the whole thing with Glulams. We have a few
places
> with long cantilevers and I'm getting shear to control my designs.
>
>
>
> The question is this: I've analyzed the structure in RISA software and it
> has a feature where you input design values and it will perform design
> calcs. As my members were failing in shear so much I started poking
> around.
>
>
>
>
> My controlling V is 19.256k for one beam. My shape is 7"x27" (the
program
> can't handle fractional dimensions). RISA's reports seem to be pretty
> lame,
> so I can't get to all the numbers, but it gives me a shear check of
1.906.
> This is interesting because by hand I get a fv of 19,256/(7*27)*(3/2) =
> 152.83 psi. I gave the program Fv of 200 and I've neglected the load
> duration factor for the time being, so I thought the check should be
> 152.83/200 = .764. This caught my attention because it's off by a factor
> of
> exactly 2.5.
>
>
>
> So all this to say, is there some 2.5 safety factor somewhere in the NDS
> that I've never heard of? It seems extremely conservative to me. Or
have
> I
> done something stupid?
>
>
>
> Thanks a ton,
>
>
>
>
>
> Timothy K. Hilton, E.I.
>
> Engineering Intern
>
>
>
> LHC STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS
>
> P.O. Box 10567
>
> 1015 Wade Avenue
>
> Raleigh, NC 27605-0567
>
>
>
> 919.832.5587 x 20
>
> thilton@lhcengineers.com
>

Re: Shear in NDS (and deflection)

In a message dated 2/26/09 3:33:53 PM, d.topete73@gmail.com writes:

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:40 PM, <Rhkratzse@aol.com> wrote:
(Ask me how I know.)
Ralph Hueston Kratz, S.E.
Richmond CA USA

Sounds like a loaded question...
David Topete, SE

I don't know if it's loaded or not, but the situation -- 30+ years ago, in a building that's since been demolished -- there were large roof overhangs with double cantilevered glu-lams. I thought I was very conservative in my design, but a couple of decades later the overhangs had sagged enough that they had to add ugly downspouts to drain them. :(

Live and learn.

Ralph

**************
You're invited to Hollywood's biggest party: Get Oscars updates, red carpet pics and more at Moviefone. (http://movies.aol.com/oscars-academy-awards?ncid=emlcntusmovi00000001)

some code issues

Google's Quote of the Day:

Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality.
Nikola Tesla

Re: Shear in NDS (and deflection)

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:40 PM, <Rhkratzse@aol.com> wrote:

(Ask me how I know.)

Ralph Hueston Kratz, S.E.
Richmond CA USA

Sounds like a loaded question...

--
David Topete, SE

Re: Shear in NDS (and deflection)

In a message dated 2/26/09 1:35:09 PM, gmse4603@gmail.com writes:

If you have big cantilevers, usually the issue is unbraced length of the bottom of beam.

I would alo be concerned about long-term deflection, if deflection is a concern at all. (Ask me how I know.)

Ralph Hueston Kratz, S.E.
Richmond CA USA

**************
You're invited to Hollywood's biggest party: Get Oscars updates, red carpet pics and more at Moviefone. (http://movies.aol.com/oscars-academy-awards?ncid=emlcntusmovi00000001)

Re: Shear in NDS

You may be applying the 2.5 Ch adjustment factor which I believe was eliminated in the new code and may have never applied to glulams anyway.

If you have big cantilevers, usually the issue is unbraced length of the bottom of beam.

Also, I think the allowable shears were bumped up several years ago for several GLB combinations, so maybe RISA is using an old one.

Last, if you are using an old version of RISA, it may be a unit problem when using PLF instead of KLF.... and PSI instead of KSI etc...

-gm

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Timothy Hilton <thilton@lhcengineers.com> wrote:

Hello All,

I'm new on the list and I've been enjoying reading it. Here is my question.

I'm working on an outdoor pavilion/shelter that covers three basketball courts. We are framing the whole thing with Glulams. We have a few places with long cantilevers and I'm getting shear to control my designs.

The question is this: I've analyzed the structure in RISA software and it has a feature where you input design values and it will perform design calcs. As my members were failing in shear so much I started poking around.

My controlling V is 19.256k for one beam. My shape is 7"x27" (the program can't handle fractional dimensions). RISA's reports seem to be pretty lame, so I can't get to all the numbers, but it gives me a shear check of 1.906. This is interesting because by hand I get a fv of 19,256/(7*27)*(3/2) = 152.83 psi. I gave the program Fv of 200 and I've neglected the load duration factor for the time being, so I thought the check should be 152.83/200 = .764. This caught my attention because it's off by a factor of exactly 2.5.

So all this to say, is there some 2.5 safety factor somewhere in the NDS that I've never heard of? It seems extremely conservative to me. Or have I done something stupid?

Thanks a ton,

Timothy K. Hilton, E.I.

Engineering Intern

LHC STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS

P.O. Box 10567

1015 Wade Avenue

Raleigh, NC 27605-0567

919.832.5587 x 20

thilton@lhcengineers.com

Florida License Renewal

has anyhone on the list has problems with the Florida license renewal
web site? I've been fåting around all day with apparently every
operation turning into a project, lately I can't get through the
continuing ed class registration requirements because the web site
seems to hang both with Safari and Firefox. Am I the only person
having problems with this? Could I maybe just mail them some hard-copy?

Shear in NDS

Hello All,

I’m new on the list and I’ve been enjoying reading it. Here is my question.

I’m working on an outdoor pavilion/shelter that covers three basketball courts. We are framing the whole thing with Glulams. We have a few places with long cantilevers and I’m getting shear to control my designs.

The question is this: I’ve analyzed the structure in RISA software and it has a feature where you input design values and it will perform design calcs. As my members were failing in shear so much I started poking around.

My controlling V is 19.256k for one beam. My shape is 7”x27” (the program can’t handle fractional dimensions). RISA’s reports seem to be pretty lame, so I can’t get to all the numbers, but it gives me a shear check of 1.906. This is interesting because by hand I get a fv of 19,256/(7*27)*(3/2) = 152.83 psi. I gave the program Fv of 200 and I’ve neglected the load duration factor for the time being, so I thought the check should be 152.83/200 = .764. This caught my attention because it’s off by a factor of exactly 2.5.

So all this to say, is there some 2.5 safety factor somewhere in the NDS that I’ve never heard of? It seems extremely conservative to me. Or have I done something stupid?

Thanks a ton,

Timothy K. Hilton, E.I.

Engineering Intern

LHC STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS

P.O. Box 10567

1015 Wade Avenue

Raleigh, NC 27605-0567

919.832.5587 x 20

thilton@lhcengineers.com

Re: ICF Shear Wall in SDC C

Maybe, but what are you really saving in money by doing that?

If this is a mass production track home, yeah, but for a 1 off house, just put horiz bars at every other or every third course.

-gm

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Joseph R. Grill <jrgrill@cableone.net> wrote:

I am working on a residence in a SDC C using an ICF concrete form which gives a 6" thick concrete wall. IBC 2006 says that seismic design is not required in a SDC C. ASCE 7-05 says that a plain concrete shear wall is not allowed in a SDC C ( a seismic requirement) and an "ordinary reinforced structural wall" would be required. It appears that most if not all the shear walls will be subject to a shear Vu<phiVc/2. The IRC allows horizontal reinforcing less than the .0020 Ag required in chapter 11 of the ACI for ICF walls.

My thought boils down to this. Since seismic design is not required for a residence in a SDC C the minimum horizontal reinforcing requirements of ACI chapter 11 are not required, and I can use (if the numbers work out for applied shear to the walls) the minimum reinforcing allowed by the IRC, which I think is #4@48" o.c. if the shear Vu does turn out to be less than phi Vc/2.

Agree?

Joseph R. Grill, PE

Verde Valley Engineering, PLLC

email: VVEng@cableone.net

Standing Seam Metal Roofing Wind Uplift Calculations

List,

Are there any standards or guidelines for the wind uplift design of standing seam metal roofing?

Thanks,

Oshin Tosounian, S.E.

ICF Shear Wall in SDC C

I am working on a residence in a SDC C using an ICF concrete form which gives a 6” thick concrete wall. IBC 2006 says that seismic design is not required in a SDC C. ASCE 7-05 says that a plain concrete shear wall is not allowed in a SDC C ( a seismic requirement) and an “ordinary reinforced structural wall” would be required. It appears that most if not all the shear walls will be subject to a shear Vu<phiVc/2. The IRC allows horizontal reinforcing less than the .0020 Ag required in chapter 11 of the ACI for ICF walls.

My thought boils down to this. Since seismic design is not required for a residence in a SDC C the minimum horizontal reinforcing requirements of ACI chapter 11 are not required, and I can use (if the numbers work out for applied shear to the walls) the minimum reinforcing allowed by the IRC, which I think is #4@48” o.c. if the shear Vu does turn out to be less than phi Vc/2.

Agree?

Joseph R. Grill, PE

Verde Valley Engineering, PLLC

email: VVEng@cableone.net

Fw: ASCE-7 Ice Loads - Retraction

Jim,

I might take back part of what I said below. After looking at this a little closer I could not find any "general" reference in IBC that invokes ASCE 7 for loadings. Each load such as dead load, live load, etc. references ASCE 7 separately. I could not find any reference in the IBC that deals with ICE loading or ICE load combination as shown in ASCE 7 Chapters 2 and 10. With that said, I guess ICE loading would then only be invoked by state, local, or client requirements.

Thomas Hunt, S.E.
Fluor

----- Forwarded by Tom Hunt/AV/FD/FluorCorp on 02/26/2009 10:00 AM -----

Tom Hunt
02/25/2009 09:08 AM

To	<seaint@seaint.org>
cc
Subject	Re: ASCE-7 Ice LoadsLink

Jim,

The IBC uses ASCE 7 for all the loads and only jumps in where it wants to take exception to or add to ASCE 7. If the IBC does not add or change the ice load requirements then you need to follow what ever is in ASCE 7.

Thomas Hunt, S.E.
Fluor

"Jim Lutz" <Jim.Lutz@bhcconsultants.com>
02/25/2009 08:45 AM
Please respond to seaint

To	<seaint@seaint.org>
cc
Subject	ASCE-7 Ice Loads

Am I missing something, or does the 2006 IBC say nothing about ice loads? Sometimes Chapter 16 refers to ASCE 7 as the source for load determination and sometimes it doesn't. If ice loads are important enough to be in ASCE 7, why aren't they in the IBC?

Jim Lutz, PE, SE

Senior Structural Engineer

1601 5^th Avenue, Suite 500

Seattle, WA 98101

Ph: 206-505-3400

Fax: 206-505-3406

www.bhcconsultants.com

------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person  or entity to which it is addressed and may contain  proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material.   If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are  hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination,  distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon  this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please  contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.    Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual  sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company.   ------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Concrete Bench With Wall

Tom made the correct recommendation. Diwydag anchors work great in these applications. You can mount the threaded flange to the back of the form, and after form removal you simply thread the male end of the assembly into place. They are not costly.

Make sure you intentionally roughen the cold joint, and I would suggest a concrete adhesive to protect from water infiltration into the joint.

If you mount a 1 x (seat thickness) continuous nailer on the inside face of the form, with the Diwydag flanges mounted to that, its a great method of horizontal control, and gives you a 3/4 inch key the full depth of the seat, which assists in making the joint more water tight.

Make sure you check the wall for the reduced thickness in this area.

Rick

--- On Thu, 2/26/09, seaint04@lewisengineering.com <seaint04@lewisengineering.com> wrote:

From: seaint04@lewisengineering.com <seaint04@lewisengineering.com>
Subject: Concrete Bench With Wall
To: seaint@seaint.org
Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 8:56 AM

I've been asked to design a retaining wall with a built-in bench. The wall retains about 6 feet of soil. The bench wants to be on the low side of the wall. The architect would like to cantilever the bench out from the face of wall. I'm looking at this two ways. One way would be to form the seat with the wall and pour it together monolithic. I haven't done ornamental type work. I see this as a real pain to form the wall and seat together. Also, the seat would need a top surface form and the question I have is how to assure the seat part of the formwork was filled sufficiently with concrete while pouring. I thought about putting a construction joint in the wall at the top of the seat elevation. I don't like the idea of two separate pours. Any ideas as to how to detail a monolithic seat and wall? My other though is to pour the wall separate and then pour the seat. This is back to 2 pours. The challenge I see is how to develop the bars sticking out for the seat. I need full moment capacity but I do not have enough wall to develop the bar by the time it reaches the face of wall. Any ideas as to how to get a full bar developed in the wall? If there was no bench I could use an 8" thick wall. I could justify going to 12" thick if I needed it. This still doesn't develop a hooked #4 bar with adequate cover. Thanks for your insight. Rich ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* *** * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp * * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to: * * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp * * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you * send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web * site at: http://www.seaint.org ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

Re: Concrete Bench With Wall

Does it have to be a concrete bench? You could embed plates with welded
head studs and weld seat supports to the [;ates and top it off with wood
planks.

seaint04@lewisengineering.com wrote:
> I've been asked to design a retaining wall with a built-in bench. The wall
> retains about 6 feet of soil. The bench wants to be on the low side of the
> wall. The architect would like to cantilever the bench out from the face
> of wall.
>
> I'm looking at this two ways. One way would be to form the seat with the
> wall and pour it together monolithic. I haven't done ornamental type work.
> I see this as a real pain to form the wall and seat together. Also, the
> seat would need a top surface form and the question I have is how to assure
> the seat part of the formwork was filled sufficiently with concrete while
> pouring. I thought about putting a construction joint in the wall at the
> top of the seat elevation. I don't like the idea of two separate pours.
> Any ideas as to how to detail a monolithic seat and wall?
>
> My other though is to pour the wall separate and then pour the seat. This
> is back to 2 pours. The challenge I see is how to develop the bars
> sticking out for the seat. I need full moment capacity but I do not have
> enough wall to develop the bar by the time it reaches the face of wall.
> Any ideas as to how to get a full bar developed in the wall? If there was
> no bench I could use an 8" thick wall. I could justify going to 12" thick
> if I needed it. This still doesn't develop a hooked #4 bar with adequate
> cover.
>
> Thanks for your insight.
>
> Rich
>
>
>
>
>

Re: Concrete Bench With Wall

Rich,

If you have a concrete wall why don't you use some steel shelf
brackets, Hilti them to the wall, and install whatever kind of seat you want
(be it wood, precast, fiberglass, or whatever)?

Regards,

H. Daryl Richardson

----- Original Message -----
From: <seaint04@lewisengineering.com>
To: <seaint@seaint.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:56 AM
Subject: Concrete Bench With Wall

> I've been asked to design a retaining wall with a built-in bench. The
> wall
> retains about 6 feet of soil. The bench wants to be on the low side of
> the
> wall. The architect would like to cantilever the bench out from the face
> of wall.
>
> I'm looking at this two ways. One way would be to form the seat with the
> wall and pour it together monolithic. I haven't done ornamental type
> work.
> I see this as a real pain to form the wall and seat together. Also, the
> seat would need a top surface form and the question I have is how to
> assure
> the seat part of the formwork was filled sufficiently with concrete while
> pouring. I thought about putting a construction joint in the wall at the
> top of the seat elevation. I don't like the idea of two separate pours.
> Any ideas as to how to detail a monolithic seat and wall?
>
> My other though is to pour the wall separate and then pour the seat. This
> is back to 2 pours. The challenge I see is how to develop the bars
> sticking out for the seat. I need full moment capacity but I do not have
> enough wall to develop the bar by the time it reaches the face of wall.
> Any ideas as to how to get a full bar developed in the wall? If there was
> no bench I could use an 8" thick wall. I could justify going to 12" thick
> if I needed it. This still doesn't develop a hooked #4 bar with adequate
> cover.
>
> Thanks for your insight.
>
> Rich
>
>
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> * send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> * site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
>

Re: Concrete Bench With Wall

Rick,

You might look at some of the headed rebar applications from HRC, Dywidag, or Lenton.

Thomas Hunt, S.E.
Fluor

<seaint04@lewisengineering.com>
02/26/2009 08:56 AM
Please respond to seaint

To	seaint@seaint.org
cc
Subject	Concrete Bench With Wall

------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person  or entity to which it is addressed and may contain  proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material.   If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are  hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination,  distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon  this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please  contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.    Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual  sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company.   ------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Concrete Bench With Wall

Rich,

You can reduce the developemnt length of the hooked #4 bar by the
side cover factor(.7)
and excess reinforcemnt. with the minimum being 6". look at ACI 12.5

Tarek Mokhtar, SE
Laguna Beach, Ca