Structural Engineering: 2009-03-29

Friday, April 3, 2009

RE: looking up seismic accelerations

http://www.seismicfactor.com/default.aspx?street=%20&city=anchorage&state=AK

Bill

From: Padmanabhan Rajendran [mailto:prajendran@ymail.com]
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 8:50 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: looking up seismic accelerations

It appears to be good tool. However, when I typed in a zip code for anchorage, Alaska, Ss and S1 are shown to be 0. Are there limitations to this tool?

Rajendran

--- On Thu, 4/2/09, Rich Kipke <richkip@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Rich Kipke <richkip@gmail.com>
Subject: looking up seismic accelerations
To: seaint@seaint.org
Date: Thursday, April 2, 2009, 3:45 PM

Hello list,
 I put together this webpage for looking up seismic accelerations by
 punching in an address.  I had something similar years

 ago, but it was
 'mashed-up' with the USGS site and when they changed their site, mine
 stopped working.  This new version is independent and - if I do say so
 myself - turned out pretty darn good.
   
 the website is at:  http://www.rookrook.com
   
 some day I might add some of those Google ads just to help pay for it,
 but it's free and easy to use.
   
 Thanks,
   
 --
 Rich Kipke, PE
 ======================
 rookRooK.com
   
 ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
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RE: looking up seismic accelerations

http://www.seismicfactor.com/default.aspx?street=%20&city=anchorage&state=AL

Leave space (ie space bar) in street to get for city

Bill

From: Padmanabhan Rajendran [mailto:prajendran@ymail.com]
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 8:50 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: looking up seismic accelerations

From: Rich Kipke <richkip@gmail.com>
Subject: looking up seismic accelerations
To: seaint@seaint.org
Date: Thursday, April 2, 2009, 3:45 PM

Hello list,
 I put together this webpage for looking up seismic accelerations by
 punching in an address.  I had something similar years

 ago, but it was
 'mashed-up' with the USGS site and when they changed their site, mine
 stopped working.  This new version is independent and - if I do say so
 myself - turned out pretty darn good.
   
 the website is at:  http://www.rookrook.com
   
 some day I might add some of those Google ads just to help pay for it,
 but it's free and easy to use.
   
 Thanks,
   
 --
 Rich Kipke, PE
 ======================
 rookRooK.com
   
 ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
 *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
 *
 *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
 *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
 *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
 *
 *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
 *
 *   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
 *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
 *   without

 your permission. Make sure you visit our web
 *   site at: http://www.seaint.org
 ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

RE: looking up seismic accelerations

It is only for continental US, for Alaska and Hawaii, use www.seismicfactor.com

Bill

From: Padmanabhan Rajendran [mailto:prajendran@ymail.com]
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 8:50 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: looking up seismic accelerations

From: Rich Kipke <richkip@gmail.com>
Subject: looking up seismic accelerations
To: seaint@seaint.org
Date: Thursday, April 2, 2009, 3:45 PM

Hello list,
 I put together this webpage for looking up seismic accelerations by
 punching in an address.  I had something similar years

 ago, but it was
 'mashed-up' with the USGS site and when they changed their site, mine
 stopped working.  This new version is independent and - if I do say so
 myself - turned out pretty darn good.
   
 the website is at:  http://www.rookrook.com
   
 some day I might add some of those Google ads just to help pay for it,
 but it's free and easy to use.
   
 Thanks,
   
 --
 Rich Kipke, PE
 ======================
 rookRooK.com
   
 ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
 *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
 *
 *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
 *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
 *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
 *
 *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
 *
 *   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
 *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
 *   without

 your permission. Make sure you visit our web
 *   site at: http://www.seaint.org
 ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

Re: looking up seismic accelerations

It appears to be good tool. However, when I typed in a zip code for anchorage, Alaska, Ss and S1 are shown to be 0. Are there limitations to this tool?

Rajendran

--- On Thu, 4/2/09, Rich Kipke <richkip@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Rich Kipke <richkip@gmail.com>
Subject: looking up seismic accelerations
To: seaint@seaint.org
Date: Thursday, April 2, 2009, 3:45 PM

Hello list,
I put together this webpage for looking up seismic accelerations by
punching in an address.  I had something similar years  ago, but it was
'mashed-up' with the USGS site and when they changed their site, mine
stopped working.  This new version is independent and - if I do say so
myself - turned out pretty darn good.

the website is at:  http://www.rookrook.com

some day I might add some of those Google ads just to help pay for it,
but it's free and easy to use.

Thanks,

--
Rich Kipke, PE
======================
rookRooK.com

******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
*   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
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*   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
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Thursday, April 2, 2009

steel moment connections

BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:2.1
N:Andrew Kester;PE
FN:Andrew Kester, PE
EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:akester@cfl.rr.com
REV:20090403T003521Z
END:VCARD

Listers, sorry this is a little long.

Maybe I am missing something very obvious here, but anyone who details steel connections maybe can shed some light on this.

I normally would design moment connections for the actual moment, but we are the specialty engineer in a situation where the EOR has called out to design the connections for the full moment capacity of the beams (when they don't provide the moment on the plans). They provide on their details that flange force shall be computed by T=0.95 X Mom / depth , standard AISC stuff. The structure is a mechanical floor (floor framing) and there is an upper level of penthouse, from what we can gather there may be some wind lateral in the structure. They have supplied all of the reactions and SOME of the moments.

We are trying to use flange plates rather than direct welding of the WF to the columns using full pen welds to make things easier for our client, the fabricator. The plate sizes we are getting seem unreasonably large in area, probably because I have always designed for the actual moment, not the moment capacity of the beam. Now we just used the beam span, type, and unbraced length to get the design moment from AISC charts, which is likely MUCH larger than the actual moment at the ends of the beams.

Here is what we cannot figure out, why if we calculate the Tu of the flange area, it is much less than the Tu we are calculating from the above discussion?? Now what I anticipated is the Tu of the flange area would be much greater than the value we were designing the flange plate for, because there is no way flange tension yielding controls the bending moment , right?

To put it another way, if we were to design the flange plate to fully develop the FLANGE AREA in tension, with the beam at 50ksi and the plate at 36 ksi, we get a much smaller plate than the other method. Why the difference if you are fully developing the flange in tension just as if you were doing a full pen weld directly to the column (which is also allowed per the EOR details)?

I reviewed my mechanics of materials book and everything to see what I was missing, but it did not get specific enough in this situation. I know in theory the web carries some tension, but I thought it was neglected and moment connections are always only flange-couples anyways....

Please CC me directly also:

akester@cfl.rr.com

Andrew Kester, P.E.
Orlando, FL

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Re: looking up seismic accelerations - Wind and Snow Websites

In case anyone is interested a colleague of mine created similar web
sites for snow and wind loading:

windspeedbyzip.com
groundsnowbyzip.com

- Jeremy

>
> --- On Thu, 4/2/09, Rich Kipke <richkip@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Rich Kipke <richkip@gmail.com>
>> Subject: looking up seismic accelerations
>> To: seaint@seaint.org
>> Date: Thursday, April 2, 2009, 11:45 AM
>> Hello list,
>> I put together this webpage for looking up seismic
>> accelerations by
>> punching in an address. I had something similar years
>> ago, but it was
>> 'mashed-up' with the USGS site and when they changed their
>> site, mine
>> stopped working. This new version is independent and - if
>> I do say so
>> myself - turned out pretty darn good.
>>
>> the website is at: http://www.rookrook.com
>>
>> some day I might add some of those Google ads just to help
>> pay for it,
>> but it's free and easy to use.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --
>> Rich Kipke, PE
>> ======================
>> rookRooK.com
>>
>> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* *******
>> ***
>> *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
>> *
>> *   This email was sent to you via
>> Structural Engineers
>> *   Association of Southern California
>> (SEAOSC) server. To
>> *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe,
>> please go to:
>> *
>> *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
>> *
>> *   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org.
>> Remember, any email you
>> *   send to the list is public domain and
>> may be re-posted
>> *   without your permission. Make sure you
>> visit our web
>> *   site at: http://www.seaint.org
>> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ******
>> ********
>>
>
>
>
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
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Re: looking up seismic accelerations

Thanks Rich
Irv

--- On Thu, 4/2/09, Rich Kipke <richkip@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Rich Kipke <richkip@gmail.com>
> Subject: looking up seismic accelerations
> To: seaint@seaint.org
> Date: Thursday, April 2, 2009, 11:45 AM
> Hello list,
> I put together this webpage for looking up seismic
> accelerations by
> punching in an address. I had something similar years
> ago, but it was
> 'mashed-up' with the USGS site and when they changed their
> site, mine
> stopped working. This new version is independent and - if
> I do say so
> myself - turned out pretty darn good.
>
> the website is at: http://www.rookrook.com
>
> some day I might add some of those Google ads just to help
> pay for it,
> but it's free and easy to use.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Rich Kipke, PE
> ======================
> rookRooK.com
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* *******
> ***
> *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> *   This email was sent to you via
> Structural Engineers
> *   Association of Southern California
> (SEAOSC) server. To
> *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe,
> please go to:
> *
> *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> *   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org.
> Remember, any email you
> *   send to the list is public domain and
> may be re-posted
> *   without your permission. Make sure you
> visit our web
> *   site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ******
> ********
>

Re: looking up seismic accelerations

Yes it's only for the continental US . . Our neighbors and Alaska and
Hawaii aren't included.

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Thor Tandy <vicpeng@telus.net> wrote:
> It's only good for certain areas of the USA, right?
>
> Thor A. Tandy P.Eng, C.Eng, Struct.Eng, MIStructE
> Victoria, BC
> Canada
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rich Kipke [mailto:richkip@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 8:45 AM
> To: seaint@seaint.org
> Subject: looking up seismic accelerations
>
>
> Hello list,
> I put together this webpage for looking up seismic accelerations by
> punching in an address. I had something similar years ago, but it was
> 'mashed-up' with the USGS site and when they changed their site, mine
> stopped working. This new version is independent and - if I do say so
> myself - turned out pretty darn good.
>
> the website is at: http://www.rookrook.com
>
> some day I might add some of those Google ads just to help pay for it,
> but it's free and easy to use.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Rich Kipke, PE
> ======================
> rookRooK.com
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> * send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> * site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
>
>
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> * send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> * site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
>

--
Rich K.
======================
rookRooK.com

Re: looking up seismic accelerations

It is independent . . but uses the USGS 2002 data. I've done quite a
bit of testing with USGS Java program in the last month (like about
10,000 random points using the batch mode and then running the same
locations through the website) The maximum difference was 0.001 - At
some point I'll post the testing info and more statistics on the site.

That said . . I just noticed today that USGS seems to have posted some
new data sets recently (2008) - but I don't think the Java program is
using them yet.

Rich

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:17 PM, Casey K. Hemmatyar <khemmatyar@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Rich:
>
> Thank you for the efforts and sharing this interesting tool with us.
> However one question comes to mind. The USGS site, updates its data on a
> regular basis.
> For example, we recently had a DSA (Division of State Arch) College project
> that by the time it came back from plan check review, the seismic design
> values of Ss and S1, which we previously acquired through USGS site, had
> already been updated and changed. This was within a couple of months period.
> Therefore, DSA agency in these situations requires the structrual
> engineer to use the new values for seismic design.
>
> If this website is "independent" and is not using the values through USGS
> tool (Java Ground Motion Parameter Calculator), how would you manage to stay
> current and keep your outputs up-to-date?
> Thank you
>
> Khashayar "Casey" Hemmatyar, SE
> California
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rich Kipke [mailto:richkip@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 8:45 AM
> To: seaint@seaint.org
> Subject: looking up seismic accelerations
>
> Hello list,
> I put together this webpage for looking up seismic accelerations by
> punching in an address. I had something similar years ago, but it was
> 'mashed-up' with the USGS site and when they changed their site, mine
> stopped working. This new version is independent and - if I do say so
> myself - turned out pretty darn good.
>
> the website is at: http://www.rookrook.com
>
> some day I might add some of those Google ads just to help pay for it,
> but it's free and easy to use.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Rich Kipke, PE
> ======================
> rookRooK.com
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> *   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> *   site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
>
>

--
Rich K.
======================
rookRooK.com

re: looking up seismic accelerations

Hi Rich:

Thank you for the efforts and sharing this interesting tool with us.

However one question comes to mind. The USGS site, updates its data on a regular basis.
For example, we recently had a DSA (Division of State Arch) College project that by the time it came back from plan check review, the seismic design values of Ss and S1, which we previously acquired through USGS site, had already been updated and changed. This was within a couple of months period.
Therefore, DSA agency in these situations requires the structrual engineer to use the new values for seismic design.

If this website is "independent" and is not using the values through USGS tool (Java Ground Motion Parameter Calculator), how would you manage to stay current and keep your outputs up-to-date?
Thank you

Khashayar "Casey" Hemmatyar, SE
California

-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Kipke [mailto:richkip@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 8:45 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: looking up seismic accelerations

Hello list,
I put together this webpage for looking up seismic accelerations by
punching in an address. I had something similar years ago, but it was
'mashed-up' with the USGS site and when they changed their site, mine
stopped working. This new version is independent and - if I do say so
myself - turned out pretty darn good.

the website is at: http://www.rookrook.com

some day I might add some of those Google ads just to help pay for it,
but it's free and easy to use.

Thanks,

--
Rich Kipke, PE
======================
rookRooK.com

******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
*   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
*
*   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
*   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
*   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
*
*   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
*
*   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
*   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
*   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
*   site at: http://www.seaint.org
******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

RE: looking up seismic accelerations

Rich, your website looks pretty good. In case you need similar information for southamerica, this link may be useful (the page is in spanish):
http://www.ceresis.org/new/es/index.html
Regards,
Arturo

Get news, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Check it out!

Re: looking up seismic accelerations

I would say so too. It's pretty darn good. Thanks for the effort.

Ben Yousefi, SE, CBO

Los Angeles, CA

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RE: looking up seismic accelerations

It's only good for certain areas of the USA, right?

Thor A. Tandy P.Eng, C.Eng, Struct.Eng, MIStructE
Victoria, BC
Canada

-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Kipke [mailto:richkip@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 8:45 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: looking up seismic accelerations

Hello list,
I put together this webpage for looking up seismic accelerations by
punching in an address. I had something similar years ago, but it was
'mashed-up' with the USGS site and when they changed their site, mine
stopped working. This new version is independent and - if I do say so
myself - turned out pretty darn good.

the website is at: http://www.rookrook.com

some day I might add some of those Google ads just to help pay for it,
but it's free and easy to use.

Thanks,

--
Rich Kipke, PE
======================
rookRooK.com

RE: looking up seismic accelerations

Rich,

Looks good...thanks much for the link! Can I make a small suggestion? Add a "print" button at the top for quick access output.

Again, thanks.

Doug Mayer, SE

-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Kipke [mailto:richkip@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 8:45 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: looking up seismic accelerations

Hello list,
I put together this webpage for looking up seismic accelerations by
punching in an address. I had something similar years ago, but it was
'mashed-up' with the USGS site and when they changed their site, mine
stopped working. This new version is independent and - if I do say so
myself - turned out pretty darn good.

the website is at: http://www.rookrook.com

some day I might add some of those Google ads just to help pay for it,
but it's free and easy to use.

Thanks,

--
Rich Kipke, PE
======================
rookRooK.com

Chinese Steel

The recent posts on Chinese steel mostly dealt with strength and weld quality, but there are environmental issues too. (I know you all have lots of time on your hands to think about this). If you do a little Googling, you will find many interesting tidbits about the occurrence of radioactive steel from China.

Last March, Italian authorities seized 30 tons of Chinese steel that was contaminated with radioactive material. There are other stories

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-03-03-radioactive-steel_N.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7967285.stm

There have been issues in Europe with radioactive steel from India

http://www.hindu.com/2009/03/02/stories/2009030255471100.htm

http://www.thelocal.se/15154/20081023/

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,607840,00.html

And here with steel from Mexico

http://www.nytimes.com/1984/05/06/us/us-and-mexico-cooperating-to-restrict-radioactive-steel.html

This can be a problem with scrap in our own country. See article below

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2002/07/radioactive-recycling

We have even shipped contaminated scrap to China, where it was use to manufacture radioactive steel that they sold back to us

http://members.atlantic.net/~wiccan/articles/radmetal.htm

Jim Lutz, PE, SE

Senior Structural Engineer

BHC Consultants, LLC

1601 5^th Avenue, Suite 500

Seattle, WA 98101

Ph: 206-505-3400

Fax: 206-505-3406

www.bhcconsultants.com

looking up seismic accelerations

Hello list,
I put together this webpage for looking up seismic accelerations by
punching in an address. I had something similar years ago, but it was
'mashed-up' with the USGS site and when they changed their site, mine
stopped working. This new version is independent and - if I do say so
myself - turned out pretty darn good.

the website is at: http://www.rookrook.com

some day I might add some of those Google ads just to help pay for it,
but it's free and easy to use.

Thanks,

--
Rich Kipke, PE
======================
rookRooK.com

Re: Nonstructural Components - how far to carry Fp?

I would agree with your approach. In theory, you can keep pulling on that loose thread, but where does it end? I'd check the (e) conc beam to the (e) roof structure below, and leave well enough alone...

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Gould, Diane <Diane.Gould@dgs.ca.gov> wrote:

I have a project where we will be adding some rooftop generators to a 17-story building. The generators weigh approx 10k each, are approx 11ft L x 5 ft W x 7 ft H, and will be mounted on isolators. Ip = 1.5. SDS = 0.526

The new generators will be installed in a rooftop area that formerly housed some cooling towers. The cooling towers were mounted on a pair of concrete curbs (10" wide x 30" tall x 60 feet long, 13'-6" apart, with transverse 8" x 24" "fins" at each beam line 6'-8"cc). The curbs were left intact after the cooling towers were removed. I figured we could add some new wide-flange beams to span across the existing concrete curbs, bolt the generators to the (n) beams, and bolt the (n) beams to the (e) curbs. The way I see it, I need to design/check the following items for the elevated Fp force per 2006 IBC Chapter 13:

Anchorage of generator to (n) steel beams

Check (n) steel beams for Fp-level forces due to generators anchorage (including T/C couple due to OT)

Anchorage of (n) steel beams to (e) concrete curbs.

Anchorage of (e) conc curb to roof structure (vert bars welded to bms)

Do you think I need to take my Fp check farther than the above-noted path? (i.e., check existing roof beams for elevated Fp force?) Chapter 13 is named "Seismic Design Requirements for Nonstructural Components", and I can't seem to find any code language regarding how far to carry out the load-path check at Fp force levels. It seems logical that the "Nonstructural Component" part ends at the anchorage of the curb to the structure…i.e., don't need to check (e) roof bm for elevated Fp force….but I'm curious to see what others think…

Diane C. Gould, S.E.

Sacramento, CA

--
David Topete, SE

Wednesday, April 1, 2009

Nonstructural Components - how far to carry Fp?

I have a project where we will be adding some rooftop generators to a 17-story building. The generators weigh approx 10k each, are approx 11ft L x 5 ft W x 7 ft H, and will be mounted on isolators. Ip = 1.5. SDS = 0.526

The new generators will be installed in a rooftop area that formerly housed some cooling towers. The cooling towers were mounted on a pair of concrete curbs (10” wide x 30” tall x 60 feet long, 13’-6” apart, with transverse 8” x 24” “fins” at each beam line 6’-8”cc). The curbs were left intact after the cooling towers were removed. I figured we could add some new wide-flange beams to span across the existing concrete curbs, bolt the generators to the (n) beams, and bolt the (n) beams to the (e) curbs. The way I see it, I need to design/check the following items for the elevated Fp force per 2006 IBC Chapter 13:

Anchorage of generator to (n) steel beams
Check (n) steel beams for Fp-level forces due to generators anchorage (including T/C couple due to OT)
Anchorage of (n) steel beams to (e) concrete curbs.
Anchorage of (e) conc curb to roof structure (vert bars welded to bms)

Do you think I need to take my Fp check farther than the above-noted path? (i.e., check existing roof beams for elevated Fp force?) Chapter 13 is named “Seismic Design Requirements for Nonstructural Components”, and I can’t seem to find any code language regarding how far to carry out the load-path check at Fp force levels. It seems logical that the “Nonstructural Component” part ends at the anchorage of the curb to the structure…i.e., don’t need to check (e) roof bm for elevated Fp force….but I’m curious to see what others think…

Diane C. Gould, S.E.

Sacramento, CA

Re: CHINESE STEEL

Soil nails and tieback walls use very long thin diameter horizontal drilled shafts to lock in tall retaining walls. With water being present in the soil, you wouldn't want to risk catostrophic wall failure by having corroded steel. We specify double corrosion protection (similar to double secret probation) on shoring systems we design. This system is used on retaining walls taller than 15 feet generally. I have used them on walls as tall as 60 feet.

-gm

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 2:24 PM, <Rhkratzse@aol.com> wrote:

Wow, what a great List this is! I've been wondering about that purple Korean rebar off and on for 40 years and now I know. Or at least I think I do. But why would someone (presumably) pay extra for corrosion-protected rebar in central Washington (state)?

Thanks anyhow.

Ralph

In a message dated 4/1/09 1:54:52 PM, gmse4603@gmail.com writes:

Purple rebar is used for tiebacks in shoring. The purple coating is corrosion protection.

-gm

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:21 PM, David Fisher <dfisher@fpse.com> wrote:

I was in Santa Barbara last week and I saw CalTrans doing some work on SB 101 Freeway…

All the rebar was purple…!

Whats the deal with that?

Epoxy coating…in the Central Coast?

Great wine, though…

David L. Fisher SE PE

Fisher and Partners - Cayman
372 West Ontario Chicago 60610
75 Fort Street Georgetown Grand Cayman BWI
319 A Street Boston 02210

312.573.1701
312.573.1726 facsimile
312.622.0409 mobile

www.fpse.com

From: Rhkratzse@aol.com [mailto:Rhkratzse@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 2:15 PM
To: gmse4603@gmail.com; seaint@seaint.org
Cc: dmorris@bbfm.com
Subject: Re: CHINESE STEEL

You mean like epoxy-coating or galvanizing, or ___?

Not that I recall.

Ralph

In a message dated 4/1/09 1:13:46 PM, gmse4603@gmail.com writes:

Did it have corrosion protection?

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:58 AM, <Rhkratzse@aol.com> wrote:

The main thing I remember about Korean steel -- actually rebar -- a long time ago, was that it was distinctly purple.

Ralph

In a message dated 4/1/09 11:54:16 AM, dmorris@bbfm.com writes:

I was involved with a similar situation using Korean steel. We were
given the main section parameters (Ix, Sx, Zx, etc) . We weren't given
J and Cw so we had to use the conservative equation for calculating Lr
for calculating the moment capacity under lateral-torsional buckling.
When we were mostly done, we found out that the promised steel strength
of 50 ksi was actually 46 ksi. The other item I remember that there
wasn't the wide suite of sections that you get in North America.

Gary L. Hodgson and Assoc. wrote:
> Bill,
> One of my customers insisted on buying Chinese steel so I had to use
> it. The yield strength is only 34 ksi (for the steel he was using) so
> the savings may not be as good as it looks to the guy just buying on
> price alone. Their W shapes are not the same as North American
> shapes (or European also) so you can't compare them on price per pound
> basis either. The publications (that were given to me) on their steel
> are not as informative as ours, i.e. no J, Z, Cw, just area, mom of
> inertia, section modulus, depth, width and thicknesses.
>
> Personally, I wouldn't buy any of their stuff based on personal
> experience - too many junky products. Back in the 70's, Hodgson
> Custom Rolling (my brother's company) had a big job rolling a lot of W
> shapes. Every so often one these beams would snap and you could hear
> it in the office 75 ft away. The steel came from Canada, the USA,
> Japan and occasionally Europe - no Chinese steel then. The fewest
> number of breakages were Canadian, then American, then European and
> Japanese. I am sure everybody has improved their steel since then,
> but I suspect that the Chinese steel today would be at end of the
> list. And Canada has stopped making wide flanges.
> Hope this is helpful.
> Gary
>
> bill@polhemus.cc wrote:
>>
>> We've got an overseas job (so "Buy American" isn't an issue) where
>> they're contemplating using structural steel from the Peoples'
>> Republic of China.
>>
>> I'd like to know if anyone has any direct or indirect experience with
>> use of Chinese-made steel. And please, I'm not looking for hearsay
>> (heck, I could contribute that myself), but actual anecdotal evidence
>> of problems (or sucesses) with its use. Specific details would be a
>> plus.
>>
>> I know that a lot of foreign-made steel was problematic in the past,
>> and I also know that the PRC hasn't got the best rep regarding
>> quality control for a wide range of manufactured goods in the very
>> recent past.
>>
>> But what I'm looking for is solid information.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>

**************
Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a recession. (http://jobs.aol.com/gallery/growing-job-industries?ncid=emlcntuscare00000003)

Re: CHINESE STEEL

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 2:24 PM, <Rhkratzse@aol.com> wrote:

Wow, what a great List this is! I've been wondering about that purple Korean rebar off and on for 40 years and now I know. Or at least I think I do. But why would someone (presumably) pay extra for corrosion-protected rebar in central Washington (state)?

Thanks anyhow.

Ralph

In a message dated 4/1/09 1:54:52 PM, gmse4603@gmail.com writes:

Purple rebar is used for tiebacks in shoring. The purple coating is corrosion protection.

-gm

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:21 PM, David Fisher <dfisher@fpse.com> wrote:

I was in Santa Barbara last week and I saw CalTrans doing some work on SB 101 Freeway…

All the rebar was purple…!

Whats the deal with that?

Epoxy coating…in the Central Coast?

Great wine, though…

David L. Fisher SE PE

Fisher and Partners - Cayman
372 West Ontario Chicago 60610
75 Fort Street Georgetown Grand Cayman BWI
319 A Street Boston 02210

312.573.1701
312.573.1726 facsimile
312.622.0409 mobile

www.fpse.com

From: Rhkratzse@aol.com [mailto:Rhkratzse@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 2:15 PM
To: gmse4603@gmail.com; seaint@seaint.org
Cc: dmorris@bbfm.com
Subject: Re: CHINESE STEEL

You mean like epoxy-coating or galvanizing, or ___?

Not that I recall.

Ralph

In a message dated 4/1/09 1:13:46 PM, gmse4603@gmail.com writes:

Did it have corrosion protection?

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:58 AM, <Rhkratzse@aol.com> wrote:

The main thing I remember about Korean steel -- actually rebar -- a long time ago, was that it was distinctly purple.

Ralph

In a message dated 4/1/09 11:54:16 AM, dmorris@bbfm.com writes:

I was involved with a similar situation using Korean steel. We were
given the main section parameters (Ix, Sx, Zx, etc) . We weren't given
J and Cw so we had to use the conservative equation for calculating Lr
for calculating the moment capacity under lateral-torsional buckling.
When we were mostly done, we found out that the promised steel strength
of 50 ksi was actually 46 ksi. The other item I remember that there
wasn't the wide suite of sections that you get in North America.

Gary L. Hodgson and Assoc. wrote:
> Bill,
> One of my customers insisted on buying Chinese steel so I had to use
> it. The yield strength is only 34 ksi (for the steel he was using) so
> the savings may not be as good as it looks to the guy just buying on
> price alone. Their W shapes are not the same as North American
> shapes (or European also) so you can't compare them on price per pound
> basis either. The publications (that were given to me) on their steel
> are not as informative as ours, i.e. no J, Z, Cw, just area, mom of
> inertia, section modulus, depth, width and thicknesses.
>
> Personally, I wouldn't buy any of their stuff based on personal
> experience - too many junky products. Back in the 70's, Hodgson
> Custom Rolling (my brother's company) had a big job rolling a lot of W
> shapes. Every so often one these beams would snap and you could hear
> it in the office 75 ft away. The steel came from Canada, the USA,
> Japan and occasionally Europe - no Chinese steel then. The fewest
> number of breakages were Canadian, then American, then European and
> Japanese. I am sure everybody has improved their steel since then,
> but I suspect that the Chinese steel today would be at end of the
> list. And Canada has stopped making wide flanges.
> Hope this is helpful.
> Gary
>
> bill@polhemus.cc wrote:
>>
>> We've got an overseas job (so "Buy American" isn't an issue) where
>> they're contemplating using structural steel from the Peoples'
>> Republic of China.
>>
>> I'd like to know if anyone has any direct or indirect experience with
>> use of Chinese-made steel. And please, I'm not looking for hearsay
>> (heck, I could contribute that myself), but actual anecdotal evidence
>> of problems (or sucesses) with its use. Specific details would be a
>> plus.
>>
>> I know that a lot of foreign-made steel was problematic in the past,
>> and I also know that the PRC hasn't got the best rep regarding
>> quality control for a wide range of manufactured goods in the very
>> recent past.
>>
>> But what I'm looking for is solid information.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>

**************
Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a recession. (http://jobs.aol.com/gallery/growing-job-industries?ncid=emlcntuscare00000003)

Sprinkler System Seismic Bracing

List:

Does sprinkler system (pipes, etc.) need seismic bracing in Seismic Design Category B (SDC B)?

Thank you,

Farzin S. Rahbar, SE
David C. Weiss Structural Engineer & Associates, Inc.
(818) 227-8040 Ex. 13 Fax: (818) 227-8041

New Low Prices on Dell Laptops - Starting at $399

Sizing Cable Restraints

I am trying to use a horizontal aircraft cable to support a string of lights against lateral movement (no vertical loads). The cable will span between the two exterior walls I am trying to figure out how much tension will be created in the cable when the lights push on it. This is similar to a bow and arrow, you pull the string creating tension which in turn pulls on the bow. I can determine the tension in the cable by how much it is elongated but how do I determine the elongation because of the lights pushing on it. Any help would be appreciated.

Thank-you,

Joe Goldbronn

Re: CHINESE STEEL

Wow, what a great List this is! I've been wondering about that purple Korean rebar off and on for 40 years and now I know. Or at least I think I do. But why would someone (presumably) pay extra for corrosion-protected rebar in central Washington (state)?

Thanks anyhow.

Ralph

In a message dated 4/1/09 1:54:52 PM, gmse4603@gmail.com writes:

Purple rebar is used for tiebacks in shoring. The purple coating is corrosion protection.

-gm

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:21 PM, David Fisher <dfisher@fpse.com> wrote:

I was in Santa Barbara last week and I saw CalTrans doing some work on SB 101 Freeway…

All the rebar was purple…!

Whats the deal with that?

Epoxy coating…in the Central Coast?

Great wine, though…

David L. Fisher SE PE

Fisher and Partners - Cayman
372 West Ontario Chicago 60610
75 Fort Street Georgetown Grand Cayman BWI
319 A Street Boston 02210

312.573.1701
312.573.1726 facsimile
312.622.0409 mobile

www.fpse.com

From: Rhkratzse@aol.com [mailto:Rhkratzse@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 2:15 PM
To: gmse4603@gmail.com; seaint@seaint.org
Cc: dmorris@bbfm.com
Subject: Re: CHINESE STEEL

You mean like epoxy-coating or galvanizing, or ___?

Not that I recall.

Ralph

In a message dated 4/1/09 1:13:46 PM, gmse4603@gmail.com writes:

Did it have corrosion protection?

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:58 AM, <Rhkratzse@aol.com> wrote:

The main thing I remember about Korean steel -- actually rebar -- a long time ago, was that it was distinctly purple.

Ralph

In a message dated 4/1/09 11:54:16 AM, dmorris@bbfm.com writes:

I was involved with a similar situation using Korean steel. We were
given the main section parameters (Ix, Sx, Zx, etc) . We weren't given
J and Cw so we had to use the conservative equation for calculating Lr
for calculating the moment capacity under lateral-torsional buckling.
When we were mostly done, we found out that the promised steel strength
of 50 ksi was actually 46 ksi. The other item I remember that there
wasn't the wide suite of sections that you get in North America.

Gary L. Hodgson and Assoc. wrote:
> Bill,
> One of my customers insisted on buying Chinese steel so I had to use
> it. The yield strength is only 34 ksi (for the steel he was using) so
> the savings may not be as good as it looks to the guy just buying on
> price alone. Their W shapes are not the same as North American
> shapes (or European also) so you can't compare them on price per pound
> basis either. The publications (that were given to me) on their steel
> are not as informative as ours, i.e. no J, Z, Cw, just area, mom of
> inertia, section modulus, depth, width and thicknesses.
>
> Personally, I wouldn't buy any of their stuff based on personal
> experience - too many junky products. Back in the 70's, Hodgson
> Custom Rolling (my brother's company) had a big job rolling a lot of W
> shapes. Every so often one these beams would snap and you could hear
> it in the office 75 ft away. The steel came from Canada, the USA,
> Japan and occasionally Europe - no Chinese steel then. The fewest
> number of breakages were Canadian, then American, then European and
> Japanese. I am sure everybody has improved their steel since then,
> but I suspect that the Chinese steel today would be at end of the
> list. And Canada has stopped making wide flanges.
> Hope this is helpful.
> Gary
>
> bill@polhemus.cc wrote:
>>
>> We've got an overseas job (so "Buy American" isn't an issue) where
>> they're contemplating using structural steel from the Peoples'
>> Republic of China.
>>
>> I'd like to know if anyone has any direct or indirect experience with
>> use of Chinese-made steel. And please, I'm not looking for hearsay
>> (heck, I could contribute that myself), but actual anecdotal evidence
>> of problems (or sucesses) with its use. Specific details would be a
>> plus.
>>
>> I know that a lot of foreign-made steel was problematic in the past,
>> and I also know that the PRC hasn't got the best rep regarding
>> quality control for a wide range of manufactured goods in the very
>> recent past.
>>
>> But what I'm looking for is solid information.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>

**************
Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a recession. (http://jobs.aol.com/gallery/growing-job-industries?ncid=emlcntuscare00000003)

Re: CHINESE STEEL

Purple rebar is used for tiebacks in shoring. The purple coating is corrosion protection.

-gm

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:21 PM, David Fisher <dfisher@fpse.com> wrote:

I was in Santa Barbara last week and I saw CalTrans doing some work on SB 101 Freeway…

All the rebar was purple…!

Whats the deal with that?

Epoxy coating…in the Central Coast?

Great wine, though…

David L. Fisher SE PE

Fisher and Partners - Cayman

372 West Ontario Chicago 60610

75 Fort Street Georgetown Grand Cayman BWI

319 A Street Boston 02210

312.573.1701

312.573.1726 facsimile

312.622.0409 mobile

www.fpse.com

From: Rhkratzse@aol.com [mailto:Rhkratzse@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 2:15 PM
To: gmse4603@gmail.com; seaint@seaint.org
Cc: dmorris@bbfm.com
Subject: Re: CHINESE STEEL

You mean like epoxy-coating or galvanizing, or ___?

Not that I recall.

Ralph

In a message dated 4/1/09 1:13:46 PM, gmse4603@gmail.com writes:

Did it have corrosion protection?

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:58 AM, <Rhkratzse@aol.com> wrote:

The main thing I remember about Korean steel -- actually rebar -- a long time ago, was that it was distinctly purple.

Ralph

In a message dated 4/1/09 11:54:16 AM, dmorris@bbfm.com writes:

I was involved with a similar situation using Korean steel. We were
given the main section parameters (Ix, Sx, Zx, etc) . We weren't given
J and Cw so we had to use the conservative equation for calculating Lr
for calculating the moment capacity under lateral-torsional buckling.
When we were mostly done, we found out that the promised steel strength
of 50 ksi was actually 46 ksi. The other item I remember that there
wasn't the wide suite of sections that you get in North America.

Gary L. Hodgson and Assoc. wrote:
> Bill,
> One of my customers insisted on buying Chinese steel so I had to use
> it. The yield strength is only 34 ksi (for the steel he was using) so
> the savings may not be as good as it looks to the guy just buying on
> price alone. Their W shapes are not the same as North American
> shapes (or European also) so you can't compare them on price per pound
> basis either. The publications (that were given to me) on their steel
> are not as informative as ours, i.e. no J, Z, Cw, just area, mom of
> inertia, section modulus, depth, width and thicknesses.
>
> Personally, I wouldn't buy any of their stuff based on personal
> experience - too many junky products. Back in the 70's, Hodgson
> Custom Rolling (my brother's company) had a big job rolling a lot of W
> shapes. Every so often one these beams would snap and you could hear
> it in the office 75 ft away. The steel came from Canada, the USA,
> Japan and occasionally Europe - no Chinese steel then. The fewest
> number of breakages were Canadian, then American, then European and
> Japanese. I am sure everybody has improved their steel since then,
> but I suspect that the Chinese steel today would be at end of the
> list. And Canada has stopped making wide flanges.
> Hope this is helpful.
> Gary
>
> bill@polhemus.cc wrote:
>>
>> We've got an overseas job (so "Buy American" isn't an issue) where
>> they're contemplating using structural steel from the Peoples'
>> Republic of China.
>>
>> I'd like to know if anyone has any direct or indirect experience with
>> use of Chinese-made steel. And please, I'm not looking for hearsay
>> (heck, I could contribute that myself), but actual anecdotal evidence
>> of problems (or sucesses) with its use. Specific details would be a
>> plus.
>>
>> I know that a lot of foreign-made steel was problematic in the past,
>> and I also know that the PRC hasn't got the best rep regarding
>> quality control for a wide range of manufactured goods in the very
>> recent past.
>>
>> But what I'm looking for is solid information.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>

**************
Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a recession. (http://jobs.aol.com/gallery/growing-job-industries?ncid=emlcntuscare00000003)