Structural Engineering: 2009-06-28

Saturday, July 4, 2009

RE: AutoCAD 2010

I also have unwanted lines set to 0 screen too ...

-----Original Message-----
From: Thor Tandy [mailto:vicpeng@telus.net]
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 2:17 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: RE: AutoCAD 2010

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your following message has been delivered to the list
seaint@seaint.org at 14:16:50 on 4 Jul 2009.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I did that and they still show up ... it seems where the ports overlap the
lines are curtailed ...

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Polhemus [mailto:bill@polhemus.cc]
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 1:39 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: AutoCAD 2010

Thor Tandy wrote:
> Anyone using 2010?
>
>
>
> I keep getting the vertical lines of my viewport boxes showing up on the
> plot .?
>
>
I usually put viewport frames on a separate layer (like VIEWPORT), and
set that layer to "No Print."

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RE: AutoCAD 2010

I did that and they still show up ... it seems where the ports overlap the
lines are curtailed ...

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Polhemus [mailto:bill@polhemus.cc]
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 1:39 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: AutoCAD 2010

Re: AutoCAD 2010

Re: Hot air recirculation

Kirtesh,

As it happens, there is a structural engineering solution to this problem. In Canada we have similar air fin coolers; and, due to the extreme variations in climate we must have ductwork around them to recirculate air to prevent the coolers from freezing in the coldest temperature extremes. Perhaps you could install either a.) a rectangular duct to serve as an exhaust stack directing the discharge from the lower air cooler away from the intake of the higher one, or b.) an intake duct on the higher air cooler to move the intake away from the exhaust of the lower one. Of course there will be structural modifications required to support the ductwork and to accommodate the higher wind loading (or seismic, as required).

Hope this helps.

Regards,

H. Daryl Richardson

----- Original Message -----

From: KIRTESH A GANDHI

To: seaint@seaint.org

Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 1:32 AM

Subject: Hot air recirculation

For one of our refinery project we have come across an interesting problem.

One air fin cooler (AFC-1) is resting on top of piperack & other one (AFC-2) is resting on top of structure.
Height of structure is 3m more than piperack and same is in downwind direction.

Both AFCs are horizontally 12m apart & elevation difference is 3m.

The AFC -1 resting on piperack is exhausting hot air of 81 degrees.

Is it possible that hot air will be recirculated & same will be sucked by AFC-2 resting on structure ? It may affect performance of AFC-2.

If yes, what kind of solution would be feasible ?
Thermal design of AFC can not be changed.

Regards,
Kirtesh Gandhi

Re: Happy July 4

Gary,

Are you saying that if Bill and Stan were both to join that the party would have to find larger quarters??

Fascinating!!

Regards,

Daryl

----- Original Message -----

From: Gary L. Hodgson and Assoc.

To: seaint@seaint.org

Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 10:13 AM

Subject: Re: Happy July 4

Seeing that you are celebrating Independence Day today and we celebrated Canada Day on Wednesday, I thought I would mention that I read in the paper this morning that the Communist Party of Canada had their annual convention this week and they had the best turn-out in several years, and double last years turn-out. Apparently the convention room was barely big enough to contain all 20 of them.
Gary

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Re: Hot air recirculation

Come on Bill, you can do better than this;) HAPPY FOURTH!

----- Original Message -----

From: Bill Polhemus

To: seaint@seaint.org

Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 10:05 AM

Subject: Re: Hot air recirculation

KIRTESH A GANDHI wrote:
Is it possible that hot air will be recirculated & same will be sucked by AFC-2 resting on structure ? It may affect performance of AFC-2.
That isn't a structural problem, of course. You might raise your concerns with your mechanical guys.
******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* *** * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp * * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to: * * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp * * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you * send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web * site at: http://www.seaint.org ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

Re: Hot air recirculation

KIRTESH A GANDHI wrote:

Is it possible that hot air will be recirculated & same will be sucked by AFC-2 resting on structure ? It may affect performance of AFC-2.

That isn't a structural problem, of course. You might raise your concerns with your mechanical guys.

Re: Happy July 4

Gary L. Hodgson and Assoc. wrote:

Seeing that you are celebrating Independence Day today and we celebrated Canada Day on Wednesday, I thought I would mention that I read in the paper this morning that the Communist Party of Canada had their annual convention this week and they had the best turn-out in several years, and double last years turn-out. Apparently the convention room was barely big enough to contain all 20 of them.

Gary

Ten of whom promptly broke away from the "main" body and held a separate convention down the street.

Re: Happy July 4

Seeing that you are celebrating Independence Day today and we celebrated Canada Day on Wednesday, I thought I would mention that I read in the paper this morning that the Communist Party of Canada had their annual convention this week and they had the best turn-out in several years, and double last years turn-out. Apparently the convention room was barely big enough to contain all 20 of them.

Gary

Hot air recirculation

For one of our refinery project we have come across an interesting problem.

One air fin cooler (AFC-1) is resting on top of piperack & other one (AFC-2) is resting on top of structure.
Height of structure is 3m more than piperack and same is in downwind direction.

Both AFCs are horizontally 12m apart & elevation difference is 3m.

The AFC -1 resting on piperack is exhausting hot air of 81 degrees.

Is it possible that hot air will be recirculated & same will be sucked by AFC-2 resting on structure ? It may affect performance of AFC-2.

If yes, what kind of solution would be feasible ?
Thermal design of AFC can not be changed.

Regards,
Kirtesh Gandhi

Friday, July 3, 2009

Re: Annoying Read Receipt Requests (Was Re: Test)

Why do you require such a high level of receipts? Is this a procedural issue
in your office?

I set my reader to NEVER respond to receipt requests.

Regards
Paul
--
Paul Ransom, P.Eng.
ph 905 639-9628
fax 905 639-3866
ad026@hwcn.org

> From: Richard Calvert <RichardC@lbbe.com>

> 90% of what I send out I need a read receipt for, so I can't turn off the a=
> uto request, but I'll do better at making sure anything I send to SEAINT ha=
> s it the request unchecked.

RE: heavy timber frames

begin:vcard
fn:Tim Rudolph
n:Rudolph;Tim
adr;dom:;;115 Eagle Vista;Bishop ;CA;93514
email;internet:PinyonEngineering@Hughes.net
tel;work:949 498-8454
version:2.1
end:vcard

Gordon,
For strawbale construction the California Strawbuilding Association CASBA - has done testing on strawbale walls and is working on determining a R. It seems when the Strawbale Guidelines were adopted in California in 1998 & 2002 the R that was assumed for stucco plastered strawbale shearwalls fit in the 1997UBC tables as R=4.5 but not explicitly stated anywhere. the shear value seemed to come from the code value for stucco over wood framing that no one I found has any memory of testing for the 180plf per skin value.(see the California Strawbale Guidelines)
CASBA and the Ecological Building Network (www.ecobuildnetwork.org)did full scale testing of walls. that data is available for download.
At this point it seem the strawbale shearwall assembly would earn a R=3 due to the limited number of test. also the allowable shear will be adjusted based on plaster compressive strength, mesh reinforcement gauge, plaster thickness and aspect ratio. The R=3 will keep the wall at or below the ultimate load and elastic in performance. The work is underway now to determine the path to apply this into the current code structure.

If you look at how plywood shear walls got the R=5.5 or 6 when the walls become inelastic at R=3 (the typical safety factor applied to plywood shear walls is 2.8- 3.0) the R is determined by an inexact method when applied to traditional building materials where with new systems lots of science is applied to determine the R (look at steel plate shearwalls R and data on a new material acceptance) I think a standard is being written to address how to determine a R for a structural system.

If more info is desired contact me

Tim Rudolph
Bishop CA

So what about straw bale houses? Adobe? Rammed earth? Earthships?
What do we do, say "I have no data for or confidence in the system, so
I'm going with R =3D 2"? For straw bale construction, I've seen =
engineers
use values ranging from R =3D 2.5 to R =3D 6. It makes a big =
difference!

Re: Happy July 4 and Notorious Bill Polhemus.

Completely unfair!

I am nowhere near that good-looking.

William L. Polhemus, Jr. P.E.

Via iPhone 3G

On Jul 3, 2009, at 12:54 PM, Peter Maregan <pmaregan@yahoo.com> wrote:

Vish,

I thought you might want to know what Bill looks like before you meet him on your visit to USA.

Here's a link to a recent photo

http://www.funnyphotos.net.au/images/weird-people1.jpg

From: G Vishwanath <gvshwnth@yahoo.com>
To: seaint@seaint.org
Sent: Friday, July 3, 2009 3:18:58 AM
Subject: Happy July 4 and Notorious Bill Polhemus.

Greetings to all of you from India on the occasion of July 4.

Bill, how come you get mentioned every single day by some one or the other?

I hope to visit USA next year (my first visit to spend some time with my daughter and son in law)

The Grand Canyon/Yellowstone National Park/Disneyland and everything else can wait.
YOU are the tourist attraction that I would like to see.

I imagine, like all Americans you are built huge.
6 feet plus and 220 pounds is what I imagine you look like.

Since I am just a dapper 5'-4" and all other dimensions are proportionately modest, you must promise not to pump my hand too vigorously when we warmly shake hands. I am afraid you may yank my entire arm off.

Keep writing, keep provoking.

Warm regards
Vish from Bangalore, India

Re: Happy July 4 and Notorious Bill Polhemus.

Vish,

I thought you might want to know what Bill looks like before you meet him on your visit to USA.

Here's a link to a recent photo

http://www.funnyphotos.net.au/images/weird-people1.jpg

From: G Vishwanath <gvshwnth@yahoo.com>
To: seaint@seaint.org
Sent: Friday, July 3, 2009 3:18:58 AM
Subject: Happy July 4 and Notorious Bill Polhemus.

Greetings to all of you from India on the occasion of July 4.

Bill, how come you get mentioned every single day by some one or the other?

I hope to visit USA next year (my first visit to spend some time with my daughter and son in law)

The Grand Canyon/Yellowstone National Park/Disneyland and everything else can wait.
YOU are the tourist attraction that I would like to see.

I imagine, like all Americans you are built huge.
6 feet plus and 220 pounds is what I imagine you look like.

Since I am just a dapper 5'-4" and all other dimensions are proportionately modest, you must promise not to pump my hand too vigorously when we warmly shake hands. I am afraid you may yank my entire arm off.

Keep writing, keep provoking.

Warm regards
Vish from Bangalore, India

Re: 11x17 Laser Printers

Used HP5si, if you can find one. Bought one that was about 8 years old, going on 6 years ago. It doesn't like really, really large PDF files, but it just keeps on chugging, and the toner comes out to something like 0.1c/page. I got mine for $220, plus another $120 shipping, on ebay, and it needed a $100 fuser assembly to get the print quality looking good. They haven't been made in years and years, and aren't even supported by HP anymore, but there's a huge installed base, and lots of vendors with parts.

If you're willing to go inkjet, have low volume, and don't mind some idiosyncrasies, there is a Brother 6490 I picked up for about $250 last winter. It's real bonus is that it's got an 11x17 flatbed and document fed scanner, and can scan directly (color or b/w) to PDF onto a remote server. Not a perfect solution, mind you, but not bad.

Jordan

Bill Cain wrote:

My HP9800 is an inkjet, not a laser, but it has been a solidly performing workhorse for several years now.
Regards,
Bill Cain, SE
Berkeley, CA

Re: Hockey Stick Graphs

Thanks, Drew

Drew Morris wrote:

Try this link as a start:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/topics/construction-deaths/

Gary L. Hodgson and Assoc. wrote:
All the engineers I know of are busy up here, so you can do worse. Also besides the discussion about the Philidelphia and Dalles jobs, what does anybody know about the fiasco in Las Vegas. I have been told there are building problems, possible deaths, faulty or no inspections, rebar left out, construction without permits out and more good stuff. Sorry, don't mean to imply that deaths are good stuff , I am just looking for information.
Gary

Stan Caldwell wrote:

Bill:

While I might be able to inject a measure of reason into the climate change debate and thereby prevent our great grandchildren from growing up in a third-world country, the USA in 2040 under cap & trade, I do not have the capacity of finding you a job. I wouldn't even know where to start. Wait a minute! Perhaps Cover-All Building Systems is hiring again. Except for the mosquitos, Canada is really nice this time of year.

Stan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 4:34 PM, Bill Polhemus <bill@polhemus.cc> wrote:

Bill Polhemus wrote:

This disclaimer is in hopes that Stan Caldwell might not be offended by anything (or as few things as possible) that I say, so that he may not be dissuaded from somehow finding me a job.

B. P.

******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* *** * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp * * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to: * * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp * * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you * send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web * site at: http://www.seaint.org ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

Re: Happy July 4 and Notorious Bill Polhemus.

Because I owe everyone money.

William L. Polhemus, Jr. P.E.

Via iPhone 3G

On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:18 AM, G Vishwanath <gvshwnth@yahoo.com> wrote:

Bill, how come you get mentioned every single day by some one or the other?

Happy July 4 and Notorious Bill Polhemus.

Greetings to all of you from India on the occasion of July 4.

Bill, how come you get mentioned every single day by some one or the other?

I hope to visit USA next year (my first visit to spend some time with my daughter and son in law)

The Grand Canyon/Yellowstone National Park/Disneyland and everything else can wait.
YOU are the tourist attraction that I would like to see.

I imagine, like all Americans you are built huge.
6 feet plus and 220 pounds is what I imagine you look like.

Keep writing, keep provoking.

Warm regards
Vish from Bangalore, India

RE: Bolt to plywood

DFL would be about the right specific grapvity...but they now have specific gravities for OSB, plywood, etc in the NDS and plywood (at least Structural 1) is indicated as 0.50...same as DFL, but could be required to be as low as 0.42.

Regards,

Scott

Adrian, MI

From: Drew Morris [mailto:dmorris@bbfm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:15 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: Bolt to plywood

Try the following link from AWC.

http://www.awc.org/calculators/connections/ccstyle.asp

I used DFL for the main member wood type. I was once told that this is an acceptable wood type/density to use.

Also, APA has a short publication of bolts and plywood, Fastener Loads for Plywood - Bolts (E825E).

Now back to climate change, building inspectors, etc.......

Nick Fanger wrote:

I hate to disrupt the fun threads with something structural engineering related but I have a question….

How would you go about calculating the shear value of a ½" dia. Thru bolt attaching a steel plate and ¾" plywood? I've never done bolts in plywood before nor do I think it's that good of an idea but in this case its unavoidable. Has anyone else dealt with bolts in plywood before?

Nick Fanger, P.E.

Kish Rigging, Inc.

540 Commerce Ave.

Moorpark, CA 93021

805.532.1300 office

805.532.1332 fax

RE: heavy timber frames

Happy Independence Day!

Kausik Dutta

Kolkata, India

From: Scott Maxwell [mailto:smaxwell@umich.edu]
Sent: 03 July 2009 11:27
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: RE: heavy timber frames

Gordon:

For traditional timber framing (i.e. mortise and tenon/pegged joints) or even "psuedo" traditional timber framing (i.e. made to look like mortise and tenon/pegged joints but actually drift pins and steel knife plate, etc), I will NOT use the timber frame for seismic lateral loads and will only use the timber frame for wind lateral loads in rare occasions. I will use some other lateral system (typically either stick-built or SIP shearwalls). While there is certainly some stiffness for a traditional timber frame joint, there really is not solid research or information on how do treat such joints for seismic loading.

The TFEC 1-07 Standard (Timber Framing Standard) kind of does not really directly address the issue. It merely states:

"4.1 Stand-Alone Timber Frames

Stand-alone timber frames have been shown to have limited stiffness under lateral loads due to

the relatively low stiffness of wood-pegged joints. Hence, the effects of joint stiffness shall be

considered in the structural analysis of stand-alone timber frames to assure that the strength and

serviceability of the structural system are adequate for the intended end use."

Hope that helps.

Regards,

Scott

Adrian, MI

From: Gordon Goodell [mailto:GordonGoodell@harmonydesigninc.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 2:24 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: heavy timber frames

For those of you who deal with heavy timber construction and traditional timber framing, what response modification & overstrength factors do you use?

More globally, when you get into weird or new systems that aren’t listed in ASCE 7 Table 12.2-1, how do you deal with it? In many cases you could pick a similar system and decide if the factors listed for that system are reasonable for yours, but when you’re talking about ability to perform into the plastic range it’s a lot about confidence, and a lot about having seen how these systems have survived real earthquakes. If you were designing the world’s first stick-framed house, how could you quantify ductility and overstrength? You could do it for the materials in a lab, and then try to extrapolate those data to your framed system as a whole, but you’re not just talking about wood...it’s also steel, interactions between materials at connections, etc. Think about how hard it is to calculate the deflection of a wood diaphragm...the assumptions overwhelm the results long before you’ve got a number to hang your hat on.

So what about straw bale houses? Adobe? Rammed earth? Earthships? What do we do, say “I have no data for or confidence in the system, so I’m going with R = 2”? For straw bale construction, I’ve seen engineers use values ranging from R = 2.5 to R = 6. It makes a big difference!

Just wondering how any of you deal with this if & when it comes up.

regards,

Gordon Goodell

"This Message and its contents is intended solely for the addressee and is proprietary.Information in this mail is for L&T Business Usage only. Any Use to other than the addressee is misuse and infringement to Proprietorship of L&T ECC.If you are not the addressee please return the mail to the sender.L&T ECC DIVISION"

Thursday, July 2, 2009

RE: Annoying Read Receipt Requests (Was Re: Test)

That is what I assumed...that he was refering to Tom Hunt.

Keep in mind that it takes "two to tango" with regards to read receipts. Both the person sending the original message has to "request" a read receipt...and the person reading the message has to "send" the read receipt. And in some cases, the end user might not have a choice in the matter. I believe in Tom's case, his corporate email system is likely set up to automatically send a read receipt with no input from him (I believe corporate email systems such as Lotus Notes and Microsoft Exchange can be set up this way). And I believe it is also possible that some systems can be set to request a read receipt no matter what the end user wants.

Now, certainly for an "individual" account, you have complete control over whether you request a read receipt and whether you send one when you are requested. As such, I always say "no" when I am asked by some messages on the list...and I never request one.

FWIW, we went through this issue at least once back in 2006.

Regards,

Scott

Adrian, MI

From: Peter Maregan [mailto:pmaregan@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 8:48 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: Annoying Read Receipt Requests (Was Re: Test)

I think Stan is talkin about Tom Hunt who sends the read receipts.

I don't want to delete his posts as I value his responses on a variety of subjects, but I do get annoyed when I open a post only to find out it is a read receipt.

Richard, I wasn't having a bad day. Your reaction was a bit hmmmmm...unexpected in the beginning. Like saying, If you don't like my smoking here you can go outside.

Independence Day (was Re: Canada Day)

Back at y'all. Happy Independence Day. Have a blow-out weekend.
Thanks for the Beach Boys, R&B, Robin Williams, Walt Disney and Moon walks
(Neil and Michael).

What are Fall, Winter and Spring? I know Hockey Season and Not Hockey
Season. It used to switch closer to the day-light savings time changes but
now its confusing. Also, CBC's Hockey Night in Canada broadcast changed the
other National Anthem at the beginning of the game after about 50 years.
It's been rough.

Paul

> From: Stan Caldwell <stancaldwell@gmail.com>

> And ICE HOCKEY !! The good citizens of Canada could not make it through th=
> e
> fall, winter, and spring without hockey. That can also be said of those
> living in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, North Dakota, and North Texas.
>
> As we get older, we eventually realize that hockey is even more important
> than Pamela Anderson.
>
> Stan
>
> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 2:28 PM, David Topete <d.topete73@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Canadian Mist, Pamela Anderson, Don Cherry... This list does not stop,
>> eh...
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 12:11 PM, David L. Fisher <dfisher@fpse.com> wrote=
> :
>>
>>> Nice note, Bill.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Don=92t forget Canadian Club and Molsen Golden=85
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David L. Fisher SE PE
>>>
>>> Senior Principal
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fisher and Partners
>>>
>>> 372 West Ontario
>>>
>>> Suite 301
>>>
>>> Chicago 60654
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 312.622.0409 (m)
>>>
>>> 312.573.1701
>>>
>>> 312.573.1726 (f)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> www.fpse.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> *From:* Bill Polhemus [mailto:bill@polhemus.cc]
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 01, 2009 2:09 PM
>>> *To:* seaint@seaint.org
>>> *Subject:* RE: Canada Day
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Happy C-Day, all you charming Canucks. Without you, our understanding as
>>> to the relative importance of the sport of Curling to the rise of world
>>> civilization would have been lost entirely.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Canadian bacon, Canada Dry ginger ale, Canada geese. Where would we be
>>> without your influence?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Had you not bequeathed to us the smooth theatrical stylings of William
>>> Shatner, the awful prospect of a world without the United Federation of
>>> Planets would be a reality.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And of course, with the spectre (note Canadian spelling) of Global Warmi=
> ng
>>> threatening, it looks as though your wondrous land will soon serve as th=
> e
>>> new Playground of the Rich and Famous, with Florida engulfed, Hawaii red=
> uced
>>> to the size of Gilligan=92s Island, and your average seasonal high tempe=
> rature
>>> rising a balmy two degrees Fahrenheit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We, O Canada, stand on guard for THEE!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Drew Morris [mailto:dmorris@bbfm.com]
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 01, 2009 11:32 AM
>>> *To:* SEAINT
>>> *Subject:* Canada Day
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For those of you between Alaska and Minnesota, have a good Canada Day!
>>> There is an Op-Ed article in the New York Times today with Canadian expa=
> ts
>>> describing Canada. My favorite is:
>>>
>>> Back home, hockey highlights lead off SportsCenter. That is the height o=
> f
>>> civilization.
>>>
>>> =97 SEAN CULLEN, a comedian
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> David Topete, SE

RE: heavy timber frames

Gordon:

The TFEC 1-07 Standard (Timber Framing Standard) kind of does not really directly address the issue. It merely states:

"4.1 Stand-Alone Timber Frames

Stand-alone timber frames have been shown to have limited stiffness under lateral loads due to

the relatively low stiffness of wood-pegged joints. Hence, the effects of joint stiffness shall be

considered in the structural analysis of stand-alone timber frames to assure that the strength and

serviceability of the structural system are adequate for the intended end use."

Hope that helps.

Regards,

Scott

Adrian, MI

From: Gordon Goodell [mailto:GordonGoodell@harmonydesigninc.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 2:24 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: heavy timber frames

For those of you who deal with heavy timber construction and traditional timber framing, what response modification & overstrength factors do you use?

Just wondering how any of you deal with this if & when it comes up.

regards,

Gordon Goodell

Re: Design for snow loads

Daryl,
I can't agree completely. I know excellent engineers who work for excellent
manufacturers. I also know less-than-excellent engineers who work for
less-than-excellent consultants. Yes, all pre-eng buildings (metal or fabric
covered) should be checked out, just like a "conventional" building is
checked out - no more, no less.

Under-designed is a matter of opinion. Pre-eng manufacturers are not
consultants and should not attempt to determine the requirements of the
project - they are not insured to take that risk. They "size steel" and
detail assemblies. If they have delivered an "under-designed" product it is
usually a result of inappropriate specifications and insufficient monitoring
by the project consultant (or the result of NO consultant).

There are some bad apples giving the manufacturers a bad name: Brokers that
sell boiler-room style - "Oh? Did you want bolts with your building?";
Web-based resellers - "We happen to have spare inventory that we want to
clear this week ..."; Installers who throw the "sag rods" away because the
wall is up and the girts aren't sagging; Manufacturers who sell a wind-swept
roof-snow condition because nobody explicitly told them it shouldn't be and
the owner liked the price better. I've got a million of'em.

Just received a spec, today, for a Federal Gov't facility tender, issued by
a national consultant. I hope that the gov't isn't paying their fee because
my RFI is longer than the spec. The consultant does not appear to be taking
the role of building or structural consultant on the project and they are
relying on a broker-reseller (no engineers or architects) to define the
building requirements to the manufacturer. Since it is a Federal project,
the building department in the municipality will not even get a set of
drawings. One day, somebody will call this building "under-designed."

A roof failure blew across my desk, today (busy day). Manufacturer is
adamant that their design "met code" and they are not at fault. I suspect
that they are truthful in this response. I am trying to make the owner
understand that the performance definition in the spec may have allowed the
manufacturer to design to about 50% of the net uplift of the recent wind
event - but it met code. If they simply have the manufacturer replace the
roof, per spec and code, it will be gone again in another 5 years. It failed
prematurely but is this "under-designed" by the manufacturer or by the
specifying consultant?

Dissuade your customers and friends from dealing with the bottom-trawlers.
There IS a difference and you really do get what you pay for.

That was very long-winded of me. I must be feeling frustrated again.

Regards
Paul
--
Paul Ransom, P.Eng.
ph 905 639-9628
fax 905 639-3866
ad026@hwcn.org

> From: "Daryl Richardson" <h.d.richardson@shaw.ca>

> Paul,
>
> I agree with your philosophy; but, in my experience, a large
> percentage of metal building manufacturers sell significantly under designed
> buildings. My advice to anyone wanting to buy one is that they (the
> buildings, and I mean all of them) be regarded as suspect until someone
> knowledgeable checks them out.
>
> Regards,
>
> H. Daryl Richardson

RE: seaint spam

Definitely looks like spoofed email address.

Used the latest one (a lovely message that appeared to offer to help me be "bigger") to check out the Internet email headers. Based upon the Message ID, the message originated from an IP address in the Netherlands. Unless, Shafat (which basically is the seaint-ad@seaint.org address) was traveling abroad in the Netherlands, it was not him and someone spoofed the email address. Further more, it appears that they BCC'd the seaint address so that we would all get spammed (it is a SEAINT message, but my filter did not move it to the appropriate folder since a BCC'd message does not show that address as a "sent to" address, which is what my filter uses).

End result is that it certainly seems like a spoofed email address...and yes, it is VERY, VERY easy to do...and generally rather easy to spot if you look in the Internet headers.

Regards,

Scott

Adrian, MI

From: Bill Polhemus [mailto:bill@polhemus.cc]
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:21 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: seaint spam

Gordon Goodell wrote:

Over the past couple weeks I’ve received a couple emails from seaint-ad@seaint.org, hawking herbal supplements or some such thing. I assume this list would have no part in spamming me, but I’m wondering: does this happen to anyone else or is something cloning addresses out of my inbox?

Gordon Goodell

Alta, WY

I haven't seen them, but that may mean they're getting trapped by my spam filter.

It's very easy to spoof email addresses. VERY easy.
******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* *** * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp * * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to: * * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp * * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you * send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web * site at: http://www.seaint.org ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

Re: Annoying Read Receipt Requests (Was Re: Test)

On July 2, 2009 7:52:26 PM, Christopher Wright wrote:

>They have both learned all the scrambled spellings for a lot ........ remedies for personal enhancements of >various kinds.

Why would I filter those? :p

Re: Annoying Read Receipt Requests (Was Re: Test)

On Jul 2, 2009, at 7:48 PM, Peter Maregan wrote:

> I think Stan is talkin about Tom Hunt who sends the read receipts.
If you have a spam filter you can usually set it to junk items with
particular text, which is what I do. The spam that my ISP doesn't
catch is usually caught by Intego Personal anti-spam and the rules on
Apple Mail. They have both learned all the scrambled spellings for a
lot of drugs and remedies for personal enhancements of various kinds.

Christopher Wright P.E. |"They couldn't hit an elephant at
chrisw@skypoint.com | this distance" (last words of Gen.
.......................................| John Sedgwick, Spotsylvania
1864)
http://www.skypoint.com/members/chrisw/

Re: Canada Day

Stan,

I don't remember the ranking except that the winner was Tommy Douglas, Premier of Saskatchewan in the 1950s and 60s. I didn't agree with the choice; but at lease he was a valid candidate.

Douglas was a member of the NDP (New Democratic Party, a semi socialist party, somewhat to the left of the Liberal Party). Other than running a generally well managed government throughout his several terms in office, his one real accomplishment was successfully implementing the Saskatchewan health care program, which became the model for the present Canadian health care program.

Regards,

H. Daryl Richardson

----- Original Message -----

From: Stan Caldwell

To: seaint@seaint.org

Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 4:35 PM

Subject: Re: Canada Day

The top half of the list, right?

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Daryl Richardson <h.d.richardson@shaw.ca> wrote:

Drew,

HA!! A couple of years ago the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC), Canada's largest TV and radio broadcasting network, held a contest to se who the Canadian public thought the "Greatest Canadian of all time was. After voting and short listing (twice) five of the final ten shortlist were hockey players!!

Regards,

H. Daryl Richardson

Back home, hockey highlights lead off SportsCenter. That is the height of civilization.
— SEAN CULLEN, a comedian

Re: Annoying Read Receipt Requests (Was Re: Test)

I think Stan is talkin about Tom Hunt who sends the read receipts.

I don't want to delete his posts as I value his responses on a variety of subjects, but I do get annoyed when I open a post only to find out it is a read receipt.

Richard, I wasn't having a bad day. Your reaction was a bit hmmmmm...unexpected in the beginning. Like saying, If you don't like my smoking here you can go outside.

From: Richard Calvert <RichardC@lbbe.com>
To: "seaint@seaint.org" <seaint@seaint.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 5:13:54 PM
Subject: RE: Annoying Read Receipt Requests (Was Re: Test)

Wow – is it really that bothersome? I really do apologize if it is. I hadn't thought about it 'til peter mentioned it – even then, I figured he was just having a bad day.

We aren't very big anymore. The economy has really taken its toll on us. Were at something like 15% of what we were 2 years ago!

As for the auto-read receipt thing, that is my preference – something I learned the hard way when working a government job… but no worries, its taken care of.

From: Stan Caldwell [mailto:stancaldwell@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 6:48 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: Annoying Read Receipt Requests (Was Re: Test)

I generally only receive read receipts from one subscriber and no, it isn't Bill Polhemus.

IIRC, the frequent offender works for a very big firm. His email setup is probably dictated by his corporate IT.

Since it is always the same culprit, you can simply configure your email to delete anything from him.

Let's all chill and celebrate Independence Day in good cheer. For me, that means floating in my backyard pool, listening to classic rock, and enjoying my good friend ... Jose Cuervo. A Badger cheerleader would be better, but I make do.

Stan

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 4:14 PM, Richard Calvert <RichardC@lbbe.com> wrote:

Oodly most of the read receipts come straight to me rather than the list – not sure why some go to the list instead. And while your assumption of me trying to be an "arrogant lecturer" is flattering, I was really just trying to make sure that people were aware, otherwise I probably wouldn't have continued on to say that I would fix it on my end… but thanks anyways for pointing that out!

From: Peter Maregan [mailto:pmaregan@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:05 PM

To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: RE: Annoying Read Receipt Requests (Was Re: Test)

Hmmmm....did you know that if everyone does that then the list will be flooded with EVEN MORE ANNOYING read receipts.

and why should I turn on my auto send receipt? Maybe I don't want to acknowledge receipt of some emails. Just because you have to, the whole list does not have to and you could see how positive the response was to the complaint.

So instead of being an arrogant lecturer and thinking you know more about setting up email preferences, just follow your own advice and do what you said you would do when it comes to SEAINT.

From: Richard Calvert [mailto:RichardC@lbbe.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:36 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: RE: Annoying Read Receipt Requests (Was Re: Test)

Hmmmm… did you know that you can go to your email options and set it to automatically send the receipt! No more dialog box …

90% of what I send out I need a read receipt for, so I can't turn off the auto request, but I'll do better at making sure anything I send to SEAINT has it the request unchecked.

RE: Annoying Read Receipt Requests (Was Re: Test)

Wow – is it really that bothersome? I really do apologize if it is. I hadn’t thought about it ‘til peter mentioned it – even then, I figured he was just having a bad day.

We aren’t very big anymore. The economy has really taken its toll on us. Were at something like 15% of what we were 2 years ago!

As for the auto-read receipt thing, that is my preference – something I learned the hard way when working a government job… but no worries, its taken care of.

From: Stan Caldwell [mailto:stancaldwell@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 6:48 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: Annoying Read Receipt Requests (Was Re: Test)

I generally only receive read receipts from one subscriber and no, it isn't Bill Polhemus.

IIRC, the frequent offender works for a very big firm. His email setup is probably dictated by his corporate IT.

Since it is always the same culprit, you can simply configure your email to delete anything from him.

Stan

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 4:14 PM, Richard Calvert <RichardC@lbbe.com> wrote:

Oodly most of the read receipts come straight to me rather than the list – not sure why some go to the list instead. And while your assumption of me trying to be an “arrogant lecturer” is flattering, I was really just trying to make sure that people were aware, otherwise I probably wouldn’t have continued on to say that I would fix it on my end… but thanks anyways for pointing that out!

From: Peter Maregan [mailto:pmaregan@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:05 PM

To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: RE: Annoying Read Receipt Requests (Was Re: Test)

Hmmmm....did you know that if everyone does that then the list will be flooded with EVEN MORE ANNOYING read receipts.

So instead of being an arrogant lecturer and thinking you know more about setting up email preferences, just follow your own advice and do what you said you would do when it comes to SEAINT.

From: Richard Calvert [mailto:RichardC@lbbe.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:36 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: RE: Annoying Read Receipt Requests (Was Re: Test)

Hmmmm… did you know that you can go to your email options and set it to automatically send the receipt! No more dialog box …

90% of what I send out I need a read receipt for, so I can’t turn off the auto request, but I’ll do better at making sure anything I send to SEAINT has it the request unchecked.