Structural Engineering: 2009-08-02

Saturday, August 8, 2009

Re: Off Topic: Economic Recovery -- RWM

My band dedicates Brown Sugar by the Stones to Thomas Jefferson when we play it...most people look at us and go "Huh?" but we had a gig near Stanford the other night and they got the reference...

-g

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 8:50 PM, <Rhkratzse@aol.com> wrote:

Thanks for the clarification, Glenn!

I appreciate these opportunities to get my mind off my (lack of) work. Keep it up!

Ralph

In a message dated 8/8/09 7:12:06 PM, ggator1256@cox.net writes:

Ralph,

Jefferson and Madison owned slaves. Madison inherited his and wanted them "treated nicely", to paraphrase. He sold some when he was in deep debt. From my understanding, all of the signers of the Declaration paid dearly with life and fortune, including their families, for their stand against tyranny. Jefferson "really liked" one of his slaves! Tocqueville was a French historian who studied America. He helped write a constitution after one of their revolutions. He was against slavery and tried to get his Frenchman to abolish it. He was known as an expert on prisons and slavery. To my knowledge, Reagan never owned any slaves. J

A Structural Engineer, P.C.
Glenn C. Otto, P.E.
2108 Flowerdew Ct.
Virginia Beach, VA 23454
757-477-2319
Website: www.astructuralengineeronline.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Rhkratzse@aol.com [mailto:Rhkratzse@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 4:26 PM
To: ggator1256@cox.net; seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: Off Topic: Economic Recovery -- RWM

Now that we've heard from the Rich White (slave-owning) Men -- who supposedly had *all* of the answers, I'd like to hear from someone else. ;)

Ralph

In a message dated 8/8/09 12:51:06 PM, ggator1256@cox.net writes:

Bill,
We still have not recovered from their mistakes (social security (Roosevelt) and medicare (Johnson))
A few thoughts from some "right-wing extremists":
"We have long since discovered that nothing lasts longer than a temporary government program." Ronald Reagan
"Were we directed from Washington when to sow, and when to reap, we should soon want bread." --Thomas Jefferson
"If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy." --Thomas Jefferson
"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it." --Thomas Jefferson
"It really is difficult to imagine how people who have entirely given up managing their own affairs could make a wise choice of those who are to do that for them. One should never expect a liberal, energetic, and wise government to originate in the votes of a people of servants." --French political thinker and historian Alexis de Tocqueville (1805-1859)
"In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself." --James Madison, Federalist No. 51
"[T]he government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government." --James Madison

Re: High Fly-Ash in PT slab

It's used all the time in SF.

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 6:12 PM, sscholl2@juno.com <sscholl2@juno.com> wrote:

Be extremely careful in using slag in concrete. When the concrete becomes wet in use, the slag may expand and you will have pop--outs.

Stan Scholl, P.E.
Laguna Beach, CA

____________________________________________________________

Criminal Lawyers - Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsMx6yqVxgYoU6IEWMJwf8HW1QxbBku9SOY4hoOp6UhdkhT7gixKAA/

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Re: Off Topic: Economic Recovery -- RWM

SGE Mobile

On Aug 8, 2009, at 20:50, Rhkratzse@aol.com wrote:

Thanks for the clarification, Glenn!

I appreciate these opportunities to get my mind off my (lack of) work. Keep it up!

Ralph

In a message dated 8/8/09 7:12:06 PM, ggator1256@cox.net writes:

Ralph,

Jefferson and Madison owned slaves. Madison inherited his and wanted them "treated nicely", to paraphrase. He sold some when he was in deep debt. From my understanding, all of the signers of the Declaration paid dearly with life and fortune, including their families, for their stand against tyranny. Jefferson "really liked" one of his slaves! Tocqueville was a French historian who studied America. He helped write a constitution after one of their revolutions. He was against slavery and tried to get his Frenchman to abolish it. He was known as an expert on prisons and slavery. To my knowledge, Reagan never owned any slaves. J

A Structural Engineer, P.C.
Glenn C. Otto, P.E.
2108 Flowerdew Ct.
Virginia Beach, VA 23454
757-477-2319
Website: www.astructuralengineeronline.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Rhkratzse@aol.com [mailto:Rhkratzse@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 4:26 PM
To: ggator1256@cox.net; seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: Off Topic: Economic Recovery -- RWM

Now that we've heard from the Rich White (slave-owning) Men -- who supposedly had *all* of the answers, I'd like to hear from someone else. ;)

Ralph

In a message dated 8/8/09 12:51:06 PM, ggator1256@cox.net writes:

Bill,
We still have not recovered from their mistakes (social security (Roosevelt) and medicare (Johnson))
A few thoughts from some "right-wing extremists":
"We have long since discovered that nothing lasts longer than a temporary government program." Ronald Reagan
"Were we directed from Washington when to sow, and when to reap, we should soon want bread." --Thomas Jefferson
"If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy." --Thomas Jefferson
"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it." --Thomas Jefferson
"It really is difficult to imagine how people who have entirely given up managing their own affairs could make a wise choice of those who are to do that for them. One should never expect a liberal, energetic, and wise government to originate in the votes of a people of servants." --French political thinker and historian Alexis de Tocqueville (1805-1859)
"In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself." --James Madison, Federalist No. 51
"[T]he government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government." --James Madison

Re: Off Topic: Economic Recovery -- RWM

Thanks for the clarification, Glenn!

I appreciate these opportunities to get my mind off my (lack of) work. Keep it up!

Ralph

In a message dated 8/8/09 7:12:06 PM, ggator1256@cox.net writes:

Ralph,

Jefferson and Madison owned slaves. Madison inherited his and wanted them "treated nicely", to paraphrase. He sold some when he was in deep debt. From my understanding, all of the signers of the Declaration paid dearly with life and fortune, including their families, for their stand against tyranny. Jefferson "really liked" one of his slaves! Tocqueville was a French historian who studied America. He helped write a constitution after one of their revolutions. He was against slavery and tried to get his Frenchman to abolish it. He was known as an expert on prisons and slavery. To my knowledge, Reagan never owned any slaves. J

A Structural Engineer, P.C.
Glenn C. Otto, P.E.
2108 Flowerdew Ct.
Virginia Beach, VA 23454
757-477-2319
Website: www.astructuralengineeronline.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Rhkratzse@aol.com [mailto:Rhkratzse@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 4:26 PM
To: ggator1256@cox.net; seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: Off Topic: Economic Recovery -- RWM

Now that we've heard from the Rich White (slave-owning) Men -- who supposedly had *all* of the answers, I'd like to hear from someone else. ;)

Ralph

In a message dated 8/8/09 12:51:06 PM, ggator1256@cox.net writes:

Bill,
We still have not recovered from their mistakes (social security (Roosevelt) and medicare (Johnson))
A few thoughts from some "right-wing extremists":
"We have long since discovered that nothing lasts longer than a temporary government program." Ronald Reagan
"Were we directed from Washington when to sow, and when to reap, we should soon want bread." --Thomas Jefferson
"If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy." --Thomas Jefferson
"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it." --Thomas Jefferson
"It really is difficult to imagine how people who have entirely given up managing their own affairs could make a wise choice of those who are to do that for them. One should never expect a liberal, energetic, and wise government to originate in the votes of a people of servants." --French political thinker and historian Alexis de Tocqueville (1805-1859)
"In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself." --James Madison, Federalist No. 51
"[T]he government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government." --James Madison

Re: Off Topic: Economic Recovery -- RWM

Not a Palin fan. Like her, but her resume is pretty light.

If she were a Democrat, she'd be overqualified, of course, but still...

William L. Polhemus, Jr. P.E.

Via iPhone 3G

On Aug 8, 2009, at 4:03 PM, "Gerard Madden, SE" <gmse4603@gmail.com> wrote:

I think Sarah Palin is smartest person in the GOP right now. Sorry Bobby Jindal, you're just too sissy.

-g

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 1:25 PM, <Rhkratzse@aol.com> wrote:

Now that we've heard from the Rich White (slave-owning) Men -- who supposedly had *all* of the answers, I'd like to hear from someone else. ;)

Ralph

In a message dated 8/8/09 12:51:06 PM, ggator1256@cox.net writes:

Bill,
We still have not recovered from their mistakes (social security (Roosevelt) and medicare (Johnson))
A few thoughts from some "right-wing extremists":
"We have long since discovered that nothing lasts longer than a temporary government program." Ronald Reagan
"Were we directed from Washington when to sow, and when to reap, we should soon want bread." --Thomas Jefferson
"If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy." --Thomas Jefferson
"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it." --Thomas Jefferson
"It really is difficult to imagine how people who have entirely given up managing their own affairs could make a wise choice of those who are to do that for them. One should never expect a liberal, energetic, and wise government to originate in the votes of a people of servants." --French political thinker and historian Alexis de Tocqueville (1805-1859)
"In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself." --James Madison, Federalist No. 51
"[T]he government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government." --James Madison

Re: Off Topic: Economic Recovery -- RWM

Ah, yes, the tried-and-true "they owned slaves so anything they say is null and void" argument.

So, who would you like to hear from? Marx? Lenin? Mao? Pol Pot? Ho? Ceaucescu? Kruschev? Castro?

Hey, none of them owned slaves (at least, not "on the books"), every one believed in a planned economy...and every one is four-square in favor of government-run healthcare.

So there you go, lots of alternatives to "white men who owned slaves."

William L. Polhemus, Jr. P.E.

Via iPhone 3G

On Aug 8, 2009, at 3:25 PM, Rhkratzse@aol.com wrote:

Now that we've heard from the Rich White (slave-owning) Men -- who supposedly had *all* of the answers, I'd like to hear from someone else. ;)

RE: Off Topic: Economic Recovery -- RWM

Ralph,

Jefferson and Madison owned slaves. Madison inherited his and wanted them "treated nicely", to paraphrase. He sold some when he was in deep debt. From my understanding, all of the signers of the Declaration paid dearly with life and fortune, including their families, for their stand against tyranny. Jefferson "really liked" one of his slaves! Tocqueville was a French historian who studied America. He helped write a constitution after one of their revolutions. He was against slavery and tried to get his Frenchman to abolish it. He was known as an expert on prisons and slavery. To my knowledge, Reagan never owned any slaves. J

A Structural Engineer, P.C.

Glenn C. Otto, P.E.

2108 Flowerdew Ct.

Virginia Beach, VA 23454

757-477-2319

Website: www.astructuralengineeronline.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Rhkratzse@aol.com [mailto:Rhkratzse@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 4:26 PM
To: ggator1256@cox.net; seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: Off Topic: Economic Recovery -- RWM

Now that we've heard from the Rich White (slave-owning) Men -- who supposedly had *all* of the answers, I'd like to hear from someone else. ;)

Ralph

In a message dated 8/8/09 12:51:06 PM, ggator1256@cox.net writes:

Bill,
We still have not recovered from their mistakes (social security (Roosevelt) and medicare (Johnson))
A few thoughts from some "right-wing extremists":
"We have long since discovered that nothing lasts longer than a temporary government program." Ronald Reagan
"Were we directed from Washington when to sow, and when to reap, we should soon want bread." --Thomas Jefferson
"If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy." --Thomas Jefferson
"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it." --Thomas Jefferson
"It really is difficult to imagine how people who have entirely given up managing their own affairs could make a wise choice of those who are to do that for them. One should never expect a liberal, energetic, and wise government to originate in the votes of a people of servants." --French political thinker and historian Alexis de Tocqueville (1805-1859)
"In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself." --James Madison, Federalist No. 51
"[T]he government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government." --James Madison

Re: High Fly-Ash in PT slab

Be extremely careful in using slag in concrete. When the concrete becomes wet in use, the slag may expand and you will have pop--outs.

Stan Scholl, P.E.
Laguna Beach, CA

____________________________________________________________
Criminal Lawyers - Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsMx6yqVxgYoU6IEWMJwf8HW1QxbBku9SOY4hoOp6UhdkhT7gixKAA/

******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
* Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
*
* This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
* Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
* subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
*
* http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
*
* Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
* send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
* without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
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Re: Off Topic: Economic Recovery -- RWM

I think Sarah Palin is smartest person in the GOP right now. Sorry Bobby Jindal, you're just too sissy.

-g

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 1:25 PM, <Rhkratzse@aol.com> wrote:

Now that we've heard from the Rich White (slave-owning) Men -- who supposedly had *all* of the answers, I'd like to hear from someone else. ;)

Ralph

In a message dated 8/8/09 12:51:06 PM, ggator1256@cox.net writes:

Bill,
We still have not recovered from their mistakes (social security (Roosevelt) and medicare (Johnson))
A few thoughts from some "right-wing extremists":
"We have long since discovered that nothing lasts longer than a temporary government program." Ronald Reagan
"Were we directed from Washington when to sow, and when to reap, we should soon want bread." --Thomas Jefferson
"If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy." --Thomas Jefferson
"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it." --Thomas Jefferson
"It really is difficult to imagine how people who have entirely given up managing their own affairs could make a wise choice of those who are to do that for them. One should never expect a liberal, energetic, and wise government to originate in the votes of a people of servants." --French political thinker and historian Alexis de Tocqueville (1805-1859)
"In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself." --James Madison, Federalist No. 51
"[T]he government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government." --James Madison

Re: Off Topic: Economic Recovery -- RWM

Bill,
We still have not recovered from their mistakes (social security (Roosevelt) and medicare (Johnson))
A few thoughts from some "right-wing extremists":
"We have long since discovered that nothing lasts longer than a temporary government program." Ronald Reagan
"Were we directed from Washington when to sow, and when to reap, we should soon want bread." --Thomas Jefferson
"If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy." --Thomas Jefferson
"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it." --Thomas Jefferson
"It really is difficult to imagine how people who have entirely given up managing their own affairs could make a wise choice of those who are to do that for them. One should never expect a liberal, energetic, and wise government to originate in the votes of a people of servants." --French political thinker and historian Alexis de Tocqueville (1805-1859)
"In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself." --James Madison, Federalist No. 51
"[T]he government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government." --James Madison

RE: Off Topic: Economic Recovery

Bill,

We still have not recovered from their mistakes (social security (Roosevelt) and medicare (Johnson))

A few thoughts from some “right-wing extremists”:

"We have long since discovered that nothing lasts longer than a temporary government program." Ronald Reagan

"Were we directed from Washington when to sow, and when to reap, we should soon want bread." --Thomas Jefferson

"If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy." --Thomas Jefferson

"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it." --Thomas Jefferson

"It really is difficult to imagine how people who have entirely given up managing their own affairs could make a wise choice of those who are to do that for them. One should never expect a liberal, energetic, and wise government to originate in the votes of a people of servants." --French political thinker and historian Alexis de Tocqueville (1805-1859)

"In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself." --James Madison, Federalist No. 51

"[T]he government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government." --James Madison

A Structural Engineer, P.C.

Glenn C. Otto, P.E.

Virginia Beach, VA

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Allen [mailto:t.w.allen@cox.net]
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:16 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: RE: Off Topic: Economic Recovery

You think Bill O'Reilly is a "right wing spokesman"?

Wow!

Just curious, but exactly how were the Libs part of the solution the past eight years?

Since you seem to like history (with the Bob Dylan reference), you should also be aware what a failure L.B. Johnson's "Great Society" was and that it took 35 years to reverse his mistakes.

T. William (Bill) Allen, S.E.

ALLEN DESIGNS

Consulting Structural Engineers
V (949) 248-8588 • F(949) 209-2509

RE: Accidental Torsion

Parag,
When you mentioned "vertical seismic", it was like a nerve being hit. This is a windmill I have been tilting at for quite a while.

The code only considers horizontal seismic ground motion when it comes to accidental torsion. Accidental torsion is only in the horizontal plane.

Even though there are several very good studies on vertical seismic ground motions, the IBC / CBC / ASCE 7 codes ignores them. The only place that you need to consider them is for mission critical military structures and in nuclear power plants.

When you are required to address vertical seismic ground motions, you must do a rigorous dynamic analysis which then precludes the need for "accidental" torsion. The torsion will become self evident when you run the analysis. You don't need to back into the torsion like you do with the code procedures.

Regards, Harold Sprague

> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:59:49 -0700
> From: pabande@npcil.co.in
> To: seaint@seaint.org
> Subject: Accidental Torsion
>
> Dear All,
> Due to incoherent vertical seismic waves there is a possibility that
> structure may experience accidental torsion. How to consider this
> torsion while designing multistory frames? Theoretically it is to be
> considered as torsion equal to story shear multiplied by 5% of
> dimension of structure perpendicular to direction of Earthquake.But in
> actual how to do the steps to consider it additionally in forces (or
> shear only) arrived due to seismic analysis.Generally what is the practice?
> Regards,
> Parag
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Get your vacation photos on your phone! Click here.

RE: High Fly-Ash in PT slab

Joe,

Glenn suggests a very good reference on concrete mix design. There are others in the US Army Corps of Engineers references. You can get any of them through the Whole Building Design web site.

The problems that you will encounter are:
1. Early strength - Fly ash tends to serve as a retarder to a degree which will effect early strength gain. This may delay tensioning operations which will cost money. This can be offset, by the addition of some condensed silica fume which will give you more LEED points. And silica fume will really light up the early strength gain. Be careful in that all ash is not the same. F ash will behave differently than C ash. All ashes will not have the same pozolonic characteristics. Be sure to ask for 3, 7, 28 and 90 day breaks in the submittal. Have the lab plot the strength vs. time curves. Ambient temperature will effect the strength gain curve. You will gain some benefit if you have reactive aggregate.

2. Workability - The flat work guys will complain. It is stickier. They will have to use magnesium trowels and take added precautions. Curing is actually a bit more forgiving. It will not bleed the same way to which they are accustomed. It will behave differently in the methods used to convey the plastic concrete. Pumping is the least desirable. A lot of regions are now using mini-conveyors which are great because you don't have to accommodate the pumpability issue.

Polycarboxolate super plasticizers will help to minimize the water and get you the early strength that you need and will reduce the setting time. But not all polycarboxolate supers are not the same. Even the same suppliers will have different supers that will behave differently. Getting a good testing lab that works closely with the concrete suppliers is a big help.

Regards, Harold Sprague

From: ggator1256@cox.net
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: RE: High Fly-Ash in PT slab
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:34:29 -0400

Joe,

Federal Publication EM 1110-2-2000 is at http://140.194.76.129/publications/eng-manuals/em1110-2-2000/toc.htm.

It is Concrete for Civil Works and has discussions of fly ash and alkali-silica reactions. It also helps with strength and permeability (decrease). VDOT loves it for the alkali-silica reaction which causes those fine numerous cracks.

A Structural Engineer, P.C.

Glenn C. Otto, P.E.

Virginia Beach, VA 23454

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Goldbronn [mailto:jgoldbronn@barrish.com]
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 12:48 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: High Fly-Ash in PT slab

I have a client that is trying to maximize their "Build-it-Green" points by using high fly-ash in the concrete mix. They are requesting between 20%-30% fly-ash. Per the soils engineer we also need to use a slab-on-grade post-tensioned slab. I have never tried to use high fly-ash on a post-tensioned slab before and am having a hard time finding anyone or any reference that has done so. Does anyone have any experience with this or know of any good references?

Joe Goldbronn

Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. Check it out.

Re: Signs For RSA

Josh Plummer wrote:
> 1) Have you been strategic with how you modeled your mass? Too often I see
> folks using 500 modes for an RSA analysis when they could have gotten away
> with 20 modes if they just modeled their mass more efficiently.
>
Gotta agree with this, by my own experience.

Masses at nodes, instead of letting the program regurgitate the masses
from loading, is best.

Not so simple, but best.

Re: Signs For RSA

Parag -

If your maximum mass participation is only 15% then you clearly do NOT have
a dominant mode for that structure. Some thoughts:

1) Have you been strategic with how you modeled your mass? Too often I see
folks using 500 modes for an RSA analysis when they could have gotten away
with 20 modes if they just modeled their mass more efficiently. By more
efficiently I mean that you lump the mass at locations that to not
contribute significantly to LOCAL modes. Often times this means lumping the
mass at the major beam column intersections rather than as distributed loads
or point loads along the mid-span of the beams. In your case, that will
probably not result in a dominant mode. But, it should still help you
reduce the number of modes that you're dealing with.

2) If you don't have a dominant mode, then what you have to do (as others
have suggested) is to use two load combinations for each earthquake load
combination. One with a positive factor and one with a negative factor.

3) Then when you are reviewing your results you need to remember that the
MAGNITUDES of your results are accurate, but that their signs might not be.
This usually only comes into play when you're comparing or combining
multiple results together. Examples might be combined footings or mat
foundations, story shears, story moments, et cetera.

4) This loss of signs for your analysis results is really the main reason
why so many engineers avoid Response Spectra Analysis. There really is no
substitute for experience in dealing with this issue. Once you've done it a
few times, it's much less intimidating.

Sincerely,

Josh Plummer, SE

RISA Technologies
joshp@risatech.com
(949) 951-5815 (voice)
(949) 951-5848 (fax)

-------------------------------
From: Parag Bande <pabande@npcil.co.in>
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: Signs For RSA

Hi,

I am not using RISA-3D but using NISA. How to define contributing/
dominant mode if I have a very complicated structure in which I am going
to excite it up to around 500 modes and cut off at 33 Hz. The mass
participation in each mode varies from 5 to 15%. It is quite difficult
to have judgment for a particular mode to be selected as contributing
mode for signs. Softwares can not decide the contributing mode. Is there
any other parameters (other than mass participation) by which we can
find contributing mode in the direction of earthquake.
Regards,
Parag

RE: Off Topic: Economic Recovery

You think Bill O'Reilly is a "right wing spokesman"?

Wow!

Just curious, but exactly how were the Libs part of the solution the past eight years?

Since you seem to like history (with the Bob Dylan reference), you should also be aware what a failure L.B. Johnson's "Great Society" was and that it took 35 years to reverse his mistakes.

T. William (Bill) Allen, S.E.

ALLEN DESIGNS

Consulting Structural Engineers
V (949) 248-8588 • F(949) 209-2509

-----Original Message-----
From: ECVAl3@aol.com [mailto:ECVAl3@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 12:30 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: Off Topic: Economic Recovery

Sometimes an attempt at humor (or irony) misses it's mark or flies over the head of the target. Why do you hate humor? Maybe a right wing spokesman's comments will help cool things down

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/08/06/bill-oreilly-pens-love-letter-to-obama-in-parade-magazine/?icid=main|htmlws-main|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.politicsdaily.com%2F2009%2F08%2F06%2Fbill-oreilly-pens-love-letter-to-obama-in-parade-magazine%2F%0D%0A

I believe that "if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!". Bob Dylan once penned, "The old road is rapidly changing. Get out of the new road if you can't lend a hand,..."

s.macie

In a message dated 8/6/2009 3:34:48 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, sgordin@sgeconsulting.com writes:

Mr. Macie,

Speaking about "ilk", would you put the same US-hating label on David Fisher - who, being in so many aspects a diametrical opposite of Bill Polhemus, still agrees with him on the most pressing current issues? Is such labeling really necessary? Does it at least make you feel good?

Bill Polhemus may be a handful, but he definitely cares deeply about this country. Your statement about Bill was offensive and completely unjustified.

V. Steve Gordin, SE
Irvine CA

----- Original Message -----

From: ECVAl3@aol.com

To: seaint@seaint.org

Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 14:09

Subject: Re: Off Topic: Economic Recovery

I believe you and your ilk have condemned Obama before he even got started. It is precisely that attitude that is retarding any stimulus the government is trying to provide. Without the cooperation of the public and the business (such as banks, etc.) the economy will continue to stagnate. It doesn't do anyone any good to be partisan at a time like this. Why do you hate America?

s.macie

Friday, August 7, 2009

Re: Signs For RSA

Hi,

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Accidental Torsion

Dear All,
Due to incoherent vertical seismic waves there is a possibility that
structure may experience accidental torsion. How to consider this
torsion while designing multistory frames? Theoretically it is to be
considered as torsion equal to story shear multiplied by 5% of
dimension of structure perpendicular to direction of Earthquake.But in
actual how to do the steps to consider it additionally in forces (or
shear only) arrived due to seismic analysis.Generally what is the practice?
Regards,
Parag
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Re: high-rise evaluation

Hello, Steve,

You may want to take a look at this book,

"Facility Inspection Field Manual" by Bernard T. Lewis & Richard P. Payant, published by McGraw-Hill, 2000. It is available on Amazon.

It covers structural, mechanical, and electrical, though It does not address high-rises in particular. The detailed check lists for each discipline may be helpful for your project.

Regards,
Long

--
Long F. Chen, P.E.
Civil/Structural Engineer
Honolulu, Hawaii

From: "SGE Structural" <sgordin@sgeconsulting.com>
 To: <seaint@seaint.org>
Subject: high-rise evaluation

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001C_01CA15D4.EC6DA860
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Good afternoon,

I am trying to find documents (for example, guides or manuals) =
pertaining to the engineering evaluation of the condition of existing =
 high-rise buildings (structural, as well as mechanical, electrical, and =
other aspects).=20

Could anybody give me some advice on where to look for such documents?

Thanks,

V. Steve Gordin, SE
Irvine CA

Re: High Fly-Ash in PT slab

Use Slag instead of Fly Ash.

-gm

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Glenn Otto <ggator1256@cox.net> wrote:

Joe,

Federal Publication EM 1110-2-2000 is at http://140.194.76.129/publications/eng-manuals/em1110-2-2000/toc.htm.

It is Concrete for Civil Works and has discussions of fly ash and alkali-silica reactions. It also helps with strength and permeability (decrease). VDOT loves it for the alkali-silica reaction which causes those fine numerous cracks.

A Structural Engineer, P.C.

Glenn C. Otto, P.E.

Virginia Beach, VA 23454

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Goldbronn [mailto:jgoldbronn@barrish.com]
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 12:48 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: High Fly-Ash in PT slab

I have a client that is trying to maximize their "Build-it-Green" points by using high fly-ash in the concrete mix. They are requesting between 20%-30% fly-ash. Per the soils engineer we also need to use a slab-on-grade post-tensioned slab. I have never tried to use high fly-ash on a post-tensioned slab before and am having a hard time finding anyone or any reference that has done so. Does anyone have any experience with this or know of any good references?

Joe Goldbronn