Structural Engineering: 2009-11-22

Friday, November 27, 2009

Re: older books, takers?

Interesting thought, Andrew. I also have about 24" of shelf space filled with yellow binders -- from FEMA 74 thru 353 -- that I *never* even look at, much less use productively. Anybuddy want any of them (shipping your obligation)? (I doubt it)

Ralph
California

In a message dated 11/27/09 9:44:47 AM, akester@cfl.rr.com writes:

I have these if anyone wants I will send them to you. Email me privately only to not bog down the list. I would rather send out one package then each individually since I am doing this gratis…

1993 BOCA
1997 FEMA 302- NEHRP Recommended provisions of seismic regulations for new buildings and other structures
FEMA 350, July 2000: Rec. seismic design criteria for new steel moment-frame buildings
FEMA 303, Feb 98: NEHRP rec. provisions for seismic regulations for new buildings and other structures

Andrew Kester, PE
Florida

older books, takers?

I have these if anyone wants I will send them to you. Email me privately only to not bog down the list. I would rather send out one package then each individually since I am doing this gratis…

1993 BOCA

1997 FEMA 302- NEHRP Recommended provisions of seismic regulations for new buildings and other structures

FEMA 350, July 2000: Rec. seismic design criteria for new steel moment-frame buildings

FEMA 303, Feb 98: NEHRP rec. provisions for seismic regulations for new buildings and other structures

Andrew Kester, PE

Florida

RE: TJL Joists

Thank you. I also tried to contact iLevel by tel and email ...

Thor

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Jonkman [mailto:rjonkman@cwc.ca]
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 8:28 AM
To:

Thor: I have sent your question to the iLevel engineering department, who
should reply after the Thanksgiving weekend.
Rob

Robert J. Jonkman, P.Eng.
Manager, Structural Engineering and Sustainable Design
Canadian Wood Council
Suite 400, 99 Bank Street
Ottawa, ON K1P 6B9
Tel: 613-747-5544 ext 252
Toll Free: 800-463-5091 ext 252
Fax: 613-747-6264
email: rjonkman@cwc.ca

Visit our website at: www.cwc.ca
Wood Engineering Software: www.woodworks-software.com
Building Green with Wood: www.planetfriendlycanada.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Thor Tandy [mailto:vicpeng@telus.net]
Sent: November-26-09 9:04 PM
To:
Cc: SEAInt
Subject: TJL Joists

I'm investigating cutting some existing TJL joists to form a services chase
up through a couple of floors and out the roof. These joists are no longer
in production (5yrs+) and the TrusJoist/Weyhauser rep I spoke with used to
be an "expert' in the production but can't remember all the details. I have
a 90's manual but it doesn't give me the tech info I need.

1) I need to find out what the web tube strengths are for those joists.
They used to be colour coded grn, red, blue. Does anyone know what
strengths these represent?

2) These are 18" for the floor and 14" for the roof.

3) Does anyone know what the web tube angle is? Dependent on the depth
of the truss?

4) The existing span is 20' for all levels.

5) I want to cut them by about 36" and re-support them with an LVL or
something and am considering:

a) Top or bottom support at a panel point - no upgrade to truss if I
can get the above tech info ...?

b) "Re-design" the truss and create a ply box beam detail at the new
reaction/shear/bearing. But I still need to know what the web tube
strengths and angles are to determine the length of ply wood side panels .

Any thoughts welcome.

TIA
Thor

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RE: TJL Joists

Thor: I have sent your question to the iLevel engineering department, who should reply after the Thanksgiving weekend.
Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: Thor Tandy [mailto:vicpeng@telus.net]
Sent: November-26-09 9:04 PM
To: Andrew Watson; Andy Mill (Andy Mill); Barry Ferris (Wessex Engineering); Brian McClure (Trilogy); Cameron Graham (4D Eng); Chris Peterson (Genivar); Craig Sherwin (Sherwin Eng); Dan Kunimoto; Dave Bevan; David Davey; David Harvey; David Mann; David Romain (SPAR); Dennis Vacha (White Water); Derek Smith (Rockingham); Don Matheson; Doug Gairns; Duane Palibroda (Fast & Epp)); Fergus Foley (Access Eng); Gary Berkeley; Glen Fraser; Greg Beaveridge; Harbinder Bal (Harbinder Bal); Jack Yang (Jack Yang); Jamie Lawson (Jamie Lawson); Janilo Gargaran; Jim Galloway (Genivar); Jim Mutrie (Home); John Scott; Kevin Baskin (Kevin Baskin); Lorne Lapham (Lorne Lapham); Mahomed Kathrada (KM Eng); Marian Podlovsky; michael@section-t.com; Mike Penner; Nelson Santos (Nelson Santos); Nizar Esmail (Nizar Esmail); Pat Triggs (Pat Triggs); Paul Heinrichs; Peter Mitchell; Ralph Watts; Ritchie Smith (Hoel); Rob Barton (Home); Rob Quiring (Rob Quiring); Rob Simpson (Glotman-Simpson); Rob Wills; Robert Jirava; Rudolph Kevesdi (Rudolph Kevesdi); Steve Hoel (JSH Engineering); Steve Malkow; Theo Kerkhoff; Thomas Leung; Ziggy Slosmanis (Ziggy Slosmanis)
Cc: SEAInt
Subject: TJL Joists

1) I need to find out what the web tube strengths are for those joists.
They used to be colour coded grn, red, blue. Does anyone know what
strengths these represent?

2) These are 18" for the floor and 14" for the roof.

3) Does anyone know what the web tube angle is? Dependent on the depth
of the truss?

4) The existing span is 20' for all levels.

5) I want to cut them by about 36" and re-support them with an LVL or
something and am considering:

a) Top or bottom support at a panel point - no upgrade to truss if I
can get the above tech info ...?

Any thoughts welcome.

TIA

Thor

Thursday, November 26, 2009

Limited PE Permit in NYS - Any Experience?

Anyone has experience with limited PE Permit in NYS (3 years).
* Does the stamping engineer has to apply for individual projects he has to
sign or he can use the same permit for any number of projects during the
course of "A" year for the given 3 year permit tenure. (Note that his
company provides manufacturing services for only a part of numerous
projects carried out by the firm during an year)
* When project comes in really fast and you are under pressure to approve
the project, what might be the correct course of action for signing the
plans? Note that NYS Board takes approx. 3 weeks to issue the permit for
individual projects. Anyone with experience / input dealing with the
aforemetioned situation is appreciated.

TJL Joists

1) I need to find out what the web tube strengths are for those joists.
They used to be colour coded grn, red, blue. Does anyone know what
strengths these represent?

2) These are 18" for the floor and 14" for the roof.

3) Does anyone know what the web tube angle is? Dependent on the depth
of the truss?

4) The existing span is 20' for all levels.

5) I want to cut them by about 36" and re-support them with an LVL or
something and am considering:

a) Top or bottom support at a panel point - no upgrade to truss if I
can get the above tech info ...?

Any thoughts welcome.

TIA

Thor

RE: Grade 8 bolt properties

This is a problem that goes back to the 1980's. The following is contained in the NASA 1228 by Barrett that was published in 1990.

Counterfeit Fasteners

In the past two years a great deal of concern and publicity

about counterfeit fasteners has surfaced. The counterfeit case

with the most documentation is the deliberate marking of

grade 8.2 boron bolts as grade 8 bolts.

Grade 8.2 bolts are a low-carbon (0.22 percent C) boron

alloy steel that can be heat treated to the same roomtemperature

hardness as grade 8 medium-carbon (0.37 percent

C) steel. However, the room- and elevated-temperature

strengths of the grade 8.2 bolts drop drastically if they are

exposed to temperatures above 500 OF. Grade 8 bolts can be

used to 800 OF with little loss of room-temperature strength.

Other fasteners marked as MS and NAS but not up to the

respective MS or NAS specification have shown up; however,

documentation is not readily available. Since these fasteners

are imported and have no manufacturer's identification mark

on them, it is not possible to trace them back to the guilty

manufacturer. U. S . Customs inspections have not been

effective in intercepting counterfeit fasteners.

Another problem with fasteners has been the substitution

of zinc coating for cadmium coating. If a dye is used with the

zinc, the only way to detect the difference in coatings is by

chemical testing.

Federal legislation to establish control of fastener materials

from the material producer to the consumer is being

formulated.

Regards, Harold Sprague

> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 07:39:34 -0500
> From: design@hodgsoneng.ca
> To: seaint@seaint.org
> Subject: Re: Grade 8 bolt properties
>
> I deal with ferro-manurium almost every day and some of it involves
> engineering.
> Gary
>
> Christopher Wright wrote:
> >
> > On Nov 24, 2009, at 6:58 AM, Gary L. Hodgson and Assoc. wrote:
> >
> >> I have one customer who keeps wanting to use the nice shiny SAE grade
> >> 8 bolts because they look better than those black A325 or A490 bolts.
> > To make things worse, the Counterfeit Bolt Affair of the 1990's hasn't
> > gone away. If anything it's gotten worse.
> > <http://www.nv.doe.gov/library/publications/sitelines/sl100.pdf> The
> > original problem was with so-called grade 8 bolts that were actually
> > grade 8.2 (or something like it) that were understrength or wouldn't
> > hold a pre-load. So when you go through all your spec options keep in
> > mind that you could be getting ferro-manurium fasteners if you don't
> > shop with care.
> >
> > Christopher Wright P.E. |"They couldn't hit an elephant at
> > chrisw@skypoint.com | this distance" (last words of Gen.
> > .......................................| John Sedgwick, Spotsylvania
> > 1864)
> > http://www.skypoint.com/members/chrisw/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
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> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
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> * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
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Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn more.

Re: Grade 8 bolt properties

I deal with ferro-manurium almost every day and some of it involves
engineering.
Gary

Christopher Wright wrote:
>
> On Nov 24, 2009, at 6:58 AM, Gary L. Hodgson and Assoc. wrote:
>
>> I have one customer who keeps wanting to use the nice shiny SAE grade
>> 8 bolts because they look better than those black A325 or A490 bolts.
> To make things worse, the Counterfeit Bolt Affair of the 1990's hasn't
> gone away. If anything it's gotten worse.
> <http://www.nv.doe.gov/library/publications/sitelines/sl100.pdf> The
> original problem was with so-called grade 8 bolts that were actually
> grade 8.2 (or something like it) that were understrength or wouldn't
> hold a pre-load. So when you go through all your spec options keep in
> mind that you could be getting ferro-manurium fasteners if you don't
> shop with care.
>
> Christopher Wright P.E. |"They couldn't hit an elephant at
> chrisw@skypoint.com | this distance" (last words of Gen.
> .......................................| John Sedgwick, Spotsylvania
> 1864)
> http://www.skypoint.com/members/chrisw/
>
>
>
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> ** This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers*
> Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To* subscribe
> (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you* send
> to the list is public domain and may be re-posted* without your
> permission. Make sure you visit our web* site at:
> http://www.seaint.org******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ******
> ****** ********

Wednesday, November 25, 2009

Re: Grade 8 bolt properties

Gary,

I attended CSCE/Mike Gilmor's (formerly CISC) seminar on changes to the S16
for 2009. Out of the entire room of 80 professionals, there seemed to be
little understanding of bolt technology. Scary ... but it reflects the
quality of project specifications and designs that I see, daily. On slow
days, I like to toy with professionals who don't know what they are
designing.

That said, my guess is that a 1/4" dia. Gr 8 bolt to hang 100# is way
overkill, probably easily available and not worth the discussion for the
substitution. There may be some savings for a lower grade if large
quantities are required.

Regards
Paul
--
Paul Ransom, P.Eng.
ph 905 639-9628
fax 905 639-3866
ad026@hwcn.org

> From: "Gary L. Hodgson and Assoc." <design@hodgsoneng.ca>
> To: seaint@seaint.org
> Subject: Re: Grade 8 bolt properties
>
> Joe,
> I don't know what the intended use of your bolts, but remember that the
> AISC specification only refers to 3 kinds of bolts for structural
> purposes and machine bolts of grade 8 or 8.8 spec don't comply. Of
> course, if the bolts are under 1/2" you may have to use machine bolts.
> I have one customer who keeps wanting to use the nice shiny SAE grade 8
> bolts because they look better than those black A325 or A490 bolts.
> Gary

Re: Quick Help

Yes and yes.
The location of the load application can influence the nominal capacity of
the member. The difference can be non-trivial. Standards assume loads to be
applied at the shear centre of the section. Refer to SSRC Guide to Stability
of Steel Structures (? check name).

Regards
Paul
--
Paul Ransom, P.Eng.
ph 905 639-9628
fax 905 639-3866
ad026@hwcn.org

> From: David Topete <d.topete73@gmail.com>

> I don't believe the point of load application matters as much as the
> stresses in the beam. if you sit a post on a beam or hang a load from the

>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 5:57 AM, Gary L. Hodgson and Assoc. <
> design@hodgsoneng.ca> wrote:
>
>> If the load is applied to the bottom flange only, the beam is unlikely to
>> buckle sideways. However as the building code (here in Canada) does not
>> differentiate between points of load application, I would be obliged to

>> Gary
>>
>>
>> G Vishwanath wrote:

>> Threre is no horizontal brace to restrict the unsupported length of the
>> compression flange.I I later got the opportunity to do the calcs.

>> Vish

RE: EPA value Panama

I presume that you intended Panama City, Panama.

You really should be using the current IBC methodology. The document link below has the Canal Zone seismic values if that is close enough for you.
http://www.wbdg.org/ccb/DOD/UFC/ufc_3_310_01.pdf

This should get you close.

Regards, Harold Sprague

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:34:33 -0600
Subject: EPA value Panama
From: barcosr@gmail.com
To: seaint@seaint.org

Hello everyone,

Is anybody aware of a recommended value for EPA in Panama City?, I mean, not the value that I could get from the UBC-97 recommended values, but something from a local site specific response spectra... just for comparing purposes, I'am checking a RC building and I'm having some problems with the total lateral displacement, I'd like to suggest the owner to perform a site specific response spectra but I'd like to have some reference values before.

Thanks in advance.,

--
Atentamente,
\0>
.||
< \_

Ing. Benjamín Arcos Reyes.
Visita: http://www.senderodelpeje.blogspot.com/

Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.

EPA value Panama

Hello everyone,

Is anybody aware of a recommended value for EPA in Panama City?, I mean, not the value that I could get from the UBC-97 recommended values, but something from a local site specific response spectra... just for comparing purposes, I'am checking a RC building and I'm having some problems with the total lateral displacement, I'd like to suggest the owner to perform a site specific response spectra but I'd like to have some reference values before.

Thanks in advance.,

--
Atentamente,
\0>
.||
< \_

Ing. Benjamín Arcos Reyes.
Visita: http://www.senderodelpeje.blogspot.com/

Characteristic Load Method

Does anyone have experience using the subject method for lateral load analysis of piles? The method was published by Virginia Tech Institute for Geotechnical Practice and Research in 2001. Its simple to use and free to download.
Thx
Irv

Tuesday, November 24, 2009

Re: Steel and Concrete Prices

Jeremy,

I have not used it in a while, but Engineering News Record use to provide this information.

Thomas Hunt

Jeremy White <admin@structuralae.com>
11/24/2009 10:28 AM
Please respond to seaint

To	seaint@seaint.org
cc
Subject	Steel and Concrete Prices

Can anyone point me in the direction of some free resources where I can check current steel and concrete prices?

Thanks,

Jeremy

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Re: Mat Foundation

SAFE RC V12 include Detailer, it's the best for mats!

Enviado desde mi BlackBerry de movistar Profesional (http://www.movistarempresas.com.ar)

From: "Gerard Madden, SE" <gmse4603@gmail.com>

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:27:30 -0800

To: <seaint@seaint.org>

Subject: Re: Mat Foundation

Use PCA Mats or SAFE

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Jason Christensen <jason@wcaeng.com> wrote:

Close! It is a self serve storage facility.

Jason

From: David Topete [mailto:d.topete73@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 2:39 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: Mat Foundation

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Jason Christensen <jason@wcaeng.com> wrote:

I have a 5 story structure that is going to be support by a mat foundation.

Sounds too small for a college dorm. My bet is it's a detention facility...

--
David Topete, SE

Re: Katrina was not a natural catastrophe but a man-made one

Thank you. You've proved my point.

s.macie

In a message dated 11/24/2009 10:11:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ggator1256@cox.net writes:

s.macie,

That's right, "open-minded" people can't have dissent from those "uneducated" peasants who believe in the Constitution and freedom. You've summarized yourself quite well.

Glenn C. Otto, P.E.

A Structural Engineer, P.C.

Virginia Beach, VA 23454

www.astructuralengineeronline.com

"Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' ... If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!"

--Samuel Adams

From: ECVAl3@aol.com [mailto:ECVAl3@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:43 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: Katrina was not a natural catastrophe but a man-made one

Dr. Astaneh-Asi,

Thank you. It's about time the "T-Baggers-on-the-list" are shut down and expelled.

s.macie

Re: Katrina was not a natural catastrophe but a man-made one

Lets cool this up and I would like all to remember that this place is
just for good technical discussion, I will not point out who started
it before but simply put things straight that If you are not impressed
with what Dr Astaneh has said in his first post, You should simply get
to the point of Discussing issues and if you don't want to be its part
then leave the topic all together. I am quite small in age compared to
all of you but please think over the issue I have raised. We should
avoid any person to person or indivisual attacks/ Response prior to
earlier frustration in this platform.

Regards
Avi Sharma

On 11/24/09, Glenn Otto <ggator1256@cox.net> wrote:
> s.macie,
>
>
>
> That's right, "open-minded" people can't have dissent from those
> "uneducated" peasants who believe in the Constitution and freedom. You've
> summarized yourself quite well.
>
>
>
> Glenn C. Otto, P.E.
>
> A Structural Engineer, P.C.
>
> Virginia Beach, VA 23454
>
> www.astructuralengineeronline.com
>
>
>
> "Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what
> should be the reward of such sacrifices?' ... If ye love wealth better than
> liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom,
> go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick
> the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may
> posterity forget that you were our countrymen!"
>
> --Samuel Adams
>
>
>
> From: ECVAl3@aol.com [mailto:ECVAl3@aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:43 PM
> To: seaint@seaint.org
> Subject: Re: Katrina was not a natural catastrophe but a man-made one
>
>
>
> Dr. Astaneh-Asi,
>
> Thank you. It's about time the "T-Baggers-on-the-list" are shut down and
> expelled.
>
> s.macie
>
>
>
>

--
Avi Sharma
2nd Year
Department of Civil Engineering,
SRKNEC, India

Steel and Concrete Prices

Can anyone point me in the direction of some free resources where I can check current steel and concrete prices?

Thanks,

Jeremy

Re: Mat Foundation

Use PCA Mats or SAFE

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Jason Christensen <jason@wcaeng.com> wrote:

Close! It is a self serve storage facility.

Jason

From: David Topete [mailto:d.topete73@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 2:39 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: Mat Foundation

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Jason Christensen <jason@wcaeng.com> wrote:

I have a 5 story structure that is going to be support by a mat foundation.

Sounds too small for a college dorm. My bet is it's a detention facility...

--
David Topete, SE

RE: Katrina was not a natural catastrophe but a man-made one

s.macie,

That's right, "open-minded" people can't have dissent from those "uneducated" peasants who believe in the Constitution and freedom. You've summarized yourself quite well.

Glenn C. Otto, P.E.

A Structural Engineer, P.C.

Virginia Beach, VA 23454

www.astructuralengineeronline.com

"Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' ... If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!"

--Samuel Adams

From: ECVAl3@aol.com [mailto:ECVAl3@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:43 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: Katrina was not a natural catastrophe but a man-made one

Dr. Astaneh-Asi,

Thank you. It's about time the "T-Baggers-on-the-list" are shut down and expelled.

s.macie

Re: Katrina was not a natural catastrophe but a man-made one

Dr. Astaneh-Asi,

Thank you. It's about time the "T-Baggers-on-the-list" are shut down and expelled.

s.macie

In a message dated 11/24/2009 7:33:46 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, astaneh@ce.berkeley.edu writes:

To: Stan R. Caldwell, P.E., SECB,
Vice Presidentand and Manager of the Structures Group
Halff Associates, Inc., 1201 North Bowser Road
Richardson, TX 75081-2275

From: Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl, Ph.D., P.E.
Professor
Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering
781 Davis Hall,
University of California, Berkeley, CA, 94720-1710

Date: November 24, 2009

Subject: Your November 23, 2009 Hate Mail and Insult Directed towards me

This is to formally notify you that your posting of Nov. 23, 2009 on the
Seaint forum (redacted below) constitutes "hate mail" and personal
"insult" directed towards me and posted in a public forum for all to
read. Your posting is unlawful and has caused and will continue to cause
great harm and injury to me , my family and friends, my students, my
clients and the fine University of California, where I am a professor.
Since these postings are read throughout the world and remain on the
Internet forever, even after I pass and no longer able to defend myself
and my honor, the damage that you have caused will continue to hurt me
and my family long after even have passed away. Unless you duly and
immediately post an apology to me as well all who have read your
posting, promise not to commit such an unlawful act in the future, ask
Seaint to remove your posting and resign from being a member of this
respected forum, I will consider seeking remedy through our judicial
system for the harm and injury that you have caused. Furthermore, I will
also report this extreme violation of Canons of Code of Ethics for
Engineers issued by the National Society of Professional Engineers fro
registered Professional Engineers, such as yourself to follow, and seek
an investigation of the case.

With a copy of this to Seaint, I am also putting Seaint on notice that I
consider the officers of Seaint an accomplice to what you have done
since Seaint has not posted policy on abuse while notifying users not to
use Seaint posts in unlawful manner for hate mail and personal insult
and have not provided a mechanism for "report abuse" as is common in
forums on the internet. Unless Seaint removes your posting immediately
for abusing these pages and prevents you from abusing the forum to
commit an illegal act, I may consider taking my case against Seaint to
the judiciary as well.

For your information, here are the definitions of "hate mail" and
"insult" below.

From Wikiepedia:

*Hate mail* (as electronic <http://www.answers.com/topic/e-mail>, posted
<http://www.answers.com/topic/mail>, or otherwise) is a form of
harassment <http://www.answers.com/topic/harassment>, usually consisting
of invective and potentially intimidating or threatening comments
towards the recipient. Hate mail often contains exceptionally abusive,
foul or otherwise hurtful language.

The recipient may receive disparaging remarks concerning the subject's
ethnicity <http://www.answers.com/topic/ethnic>, sexuality
<http://www.answers.com/topic/human-sexual-behavior>, religion
<http://www.answers.com/topic/religion>, intelligence
<http://www.answers.com/topic/intelligence>, political ideology
<http://www.answers.com/topic/ideologies-of-parties>, sense of ethics
<http://www.answers.com/topic/ethics-legal-term>, or sense of aesthetics
<http://www.answers.com/topic/aesthetics>. The text of hate mail often
contains profanity <http://www.answers.com/topic/profanity>, or it may
simply contain a negative, disappropriating message.

From http://www.yourdictionary.com/insult

in·sult (in sult*′*; /for n./ in*′*sult′)

transitive verb

   1. to treat or speak to with scorn, insolence, or great disrespect;
subject to treatment, a remark, etc. that hurts or is meant to
hurt the feelings or pride

=======================================================
Subject: Re: Katrina was not a natural catastrophe but a man-made one

From: Stan Caldwell <stancaldwell@gmail.com>
To: seaint@seaint.org

Professor Astaneh:

You are obviously ......

Regards,

Stan R. Caldwell, P.E., SECB
Plano, Texas

/=====================================
/

******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
*   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
*
*   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
*   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
*   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
*
*   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
*
*   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
*   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
*   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
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Re: Grade 8 bolt properties

On Nov 24, 2009, at 6:58 AM, Gary L. Hodgson and Assoc. wrote:

> I have one customer who keeps wanting to use the nice shiny SAE
> grade 8 bolts because they look better than those black A325 or
> A490 bolts.
To make things worse, the Counterfeit Bolt Affair of the 1990's
hasn't gone away. If anything it's gotten worse. <http://
www.nv.doe.gov/library/publications/sitelines/sl100.pdf> The original
problem was with so-called grade 8 bolts that were actually grade 8.2
(or something like it) that were understrength or wouldn't hold a pre-
load. So when you go through all your spec options keep in mind that
you could be getting ferro-manurium fasteners if you don't shop with
care.

Christopher Wright P.E. |"They couldn't hit an elephant at
chrisw@skypoint.com | this distance" (last words of Gen.
.......................................| John Sedgwick, Spotsylvania
1864)
http://www.skypoint.com/members/chrisw/

Re: Katrina was not a natural catastrophe but a man-made one

Let's see if I follow this. There are posts from Berkeley complaining about all the incompetent and corrupt structural engineers that led to the fatal accident on the bridge in SF and also the failure of the tension rod. Another post comes out from Berkeley and accuses the Corps of Engineers for the failure of the levees. Yet when Stan Caldwell responds to the posts from Berkeley, this becomes hate mail. If the poster from Berkeley can't stand the heat he should get out of the kitchen and stop posting with inflammatory language. This discussion can and should be done on a mature and professional level.

Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl wrote:

To: Stan R. Caldwell, P.E., SECB,
Vice Presidentand and Manager of the Structures Group
Halff Associates, Inc., 1201 North Bowser Road
Richardson, TX 75081-2275

From: Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl, Ph.D., P.E.
Professor
Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering
781 Davis Hall,
University of California, Berkeley, CA, 94720-1710

Date: November 24, 2009

Subject: Your November 23, 2009 Hate Mail and Insult Directed towards me

This is to formally notify you that your posting of Nov. 23, 2009 on the Seaint forum (redacted below) constitutes "hate mail" and personal "insult" directed towards me and posted in a public forum for all to read. Your posting is unlawful and has caused and will continue to cause great harm and injury to me , my family and friends, my students, my clients and the fine University of California, where I am a professor. Since these postings are read throughout the world and remain on the Internet forever, even after I pass and no longer able to defend myself and my honor, the damage that you have caused will continue to hurt me and my family long after even have passed away. Unless you duly and immediately post an apology to me as well all who have read your posting, promise not to commit such an unlawful act in the future, ask Seaint to remove your posting and resign from being a member of this respected forum, I will consider seeking remedy through our judicial system for the harm and injury that you have caused. Furthermore, I will also report this extreme violation of Canons of Code of Ethics for Engineers issued by the National Society of Professional Engineers fro registered Professional Engineers, such as yourself to follow, and seek an investigation of the case.

With a copy of this to Seaint, I am also putting Seaint on notice that I consider the officers of Seaint an accomplice to what you have done since Seaint has not posted policy on abuse while notifying users not to use Seaint posts in unlawful manner for hate mail and personal insult and have not provided a mechanism for "report abuse" as is common in forums on the internet. Unless Seaint removes your posting immediately for abusing these pages and prevents you from abusing the forum to commit an illegal act, I may consider taking my case against Seaint to the judiciary as well.

For your information, here are the definitions of "hate mail" and "insult" below.

From Wikiepedia:

*Hate mail* (as electronic <http://www.answers.com/topic/e-mail>, posted <http://www.answers.com/topic/mail>, or otherwise) is a form of harassment <http://www.answers.com/topic/harassment>, usually consisting of invective and potentially intimidating or threatening comments towards the recipient. Hate mail often contains exceptionally abusive, foul or otherwise hurtful language.

The recipient may receive disparaging remarks concerning the subject's ethnicity <http://www.answers.com/topic/ethnic>, sexuality <http://www.answers.com/topic/human-sexual-behavior>, religion <http://www.answers.com/topic/religion>, intelligence <http://www.answers.com/topic/intelligence>, political ideology <http://www.answers.com/topic/ideologies-of-parties>, sense of ethics <http://www.answers.com/topic/ethics-legal-term>, or sense of aesthetics <http://www.answers.com/topic/aesthetics>. The text of hate mail often contains profanity <http://www.answers.com/topic/profanity>, or it may simply contain a negative, disappropriating message.

From http://www.yourdictionary.com/insult

in·sult (in sult*′*; /for n./ in*′*sult′)

transitive verb

1. to treat or speak to with scorn, insolence, or great disrespect;
     subject to treatment, a remark, etc. that hurts or is meant to
     hurt the feelings or pride

=======================================================
Subject: Re: Katrina was not a natural catastrophe but a man-made one

From: Stan Caldwell <stancaldwell@gmail.com>
To: seaint@seaint.org

Professor Astaneh:

You are obviously ......

Regards,

Stan R. Caldwell, P.E., SECB
Plano, Texas

/=====================================
/

******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
*   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
* *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
*
*   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
*
*   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web *   site at: http://www.seaint.org ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

RE: Katrina was not a natural catastrophe but a man-made one

Thank you Stan. That was the phrase I was looking for "Malcontent Idiot".

Acie P. Chance

-----Original Message-----
From: Stan Caldwell [mailto:stancaldwell@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:09 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: Katrina was not a natural catastrophe but a man-made one

Professor Astaneh:

You are obviously long overdue for your reality check. Please repeat after me:

1) "Hurricane Katrina flooded New Orleans."

2) "Terrorists destroyed the WTC towers."

The facts are what the facts are, whether the good people in New Orleans and Berkeley like it or not.

Now that the facts are clear, it might also be a good time to stop mindlessly bashing ASCE, the USACE, and Caltrans. Your endless cheap shots have no effect except to make you look like a malcontent idiot.

Regards,

Stan R. Caldwell, P.E., SECB

Plano, Texas

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl <astaneh@ce.berkeley.edu> wrote:

Please see the following YouTube news story to see what people think about us engineers specially about Corps of Engineers and what it did in design of levees in New Orleans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28jPUWDX_bA

Regards
"Hassan"

Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl, Ph.D., P.E., Professor
UC-Berkeley

AA-A versus Stan Caldwell

Dear Mr AA-A,

It seems your memory is a little bit short.

In your own previous emails (sent to public domain accessible for everyone) you described some of us (means engineers) as corrupted, incompetent, just to cite some of your own words.

It seems for me that your own insinuations, repeated many times in your own emails, may well qualify for the definitions of "hate" and "insult".

I followed, probably as many others, your emails and responses from some of us who take a chance to present their point of view to you and all of us.

Without any judgment about your professional abilities, it seems that your emails were full of opinions which can be qualified as "hate" and "insult" toward others. I understand that everyone can present his opinion but I do not think that the way you did it can be seen as professional.

I wrote it with a great regret that some inflammatory words are used in professional exchange site, where we should present our opinions about the technical issues without personal insults, even as we disagree with the others.

I do not think that the way you present your opinions about the other engineers can be seen by your own students as an example of civic aptitude for our future colleges. I do not think even that the kind of inflammatory language you often use in your emails can be appreciate by your own Alma Mater.

John W. Sieszycki, P.E.

Montreal, Canada

From: Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl <astaneh@ce.berkeley.edu>
To: seaint@seaint.org; info@halff.com
Sent: Tue, November 24, 2009 10:33:10 AM
Subject: Re: Katrina was not a natural catastrophe but a man-made one

To: Stan R. Caldwell, P.E., SECB,
Vice Presidentand and Manager of the Structures Group
Halff Associates, Inc., 1201 North Bowser Road
Richardson, TX 75081-2275

From: Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl, Ph.D., P.E.
Professor
Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering
781 Davis Hall,
University of California, Berkeley, CA, 94720-1710

Date: November 24, 2009

Subject: Your November 23, 2009 Hate Mail and Insult Directed towards me

This is to formally notify you that your posting of Nov. 23, 2009 on the Seaint forum (redacted below) constitutes "hate mail" and personal "insult" directed towards me and posted in a public forum for all to read. Your posting is unlawful and has caused and will continue to cause great harm and injury to me , my family and friends, my students, my clients and the fine University of California, where I am a professor. Since these postings are read throughout the world and remain on the Internet forever, even after I pass and no longer able to defend myself and my honor, the damage that you have caused will continue to hurt me and my family long after even have passed away. Unless you duly and immediately post an apology to me as well all who have read your posting, promise not to commit such an unlawful act in the future, ask Seaint to remove your posting and resign from being a member of this respected forum, I will consider seeking remedy through our judicial system for the harm and injury that you have caused. Furthermore, I will also report this extreme violation of Canons of Code of Ethics for Engineers issued by the National Society of Professional Engineers fro registered Professional Engineers, such as yourself to follow, and seek an investigation of the case.

With a copy of this to Seaint, I am also putting Seaint on notice that I consider the officers of Seaint an accomplice to what you have done since Seaint has not posted policy on abuse while notifying users not to use Seaint posts in unlawful manner for hate mail and personal insult and have not provided a mechanism for "report abuse" as is common in forums on the internet. Unless Seaint removes your posting immediately for abusing these pages and prevents you from abusing the forum to commit an illegal act, I may consider taking my case against Seaint to the judiciary as well.

For your information, here are the definitions of "hate mail" and "insult" below.

From Wikiepedia:

*Hate mail* (as electronic <http://www.answers.com/topic/e-mail>, posted <http://www.answers.com/topic/mail>, or otherwise) is a form of harassment <http://www.answers.com/topic/harassment>, usually consisting of invective and potentially intimidating or threatening comments towards the recipient. Hate mail often contains exceptionally abusive, foul or otherwise hurtful language.

The recipient may receive disparaging remarks concerning the subject's ethnicity <http://www.answers.com/topic/ethnic>, sexuality <http://www.answers.com/topic/human-sexual-behavior>, religion <http://www.answers.com/topic/religion>, intelligence <http://www.answers.com/topic/intelligence>, political ideology <http://www.answers.com/topic/ideologies-of-parties>, sense of ethics <http://www.answers.com/topic/ethics-legal-term>, or sense of aesthetics <http://www.answers.com/topic/aesthetics>. The text of hate mail often contains profanity <http://www.answers.com/topic/profanity>, or it may simply contain a negative, disappropriating message.

From http://www.yourdictionary.com/insult

in·sult (in sult*′*; /for n./ in*′*sult′)

transitive verb

1. to treat or speak to with scorn, insolence, or great disrespect;
subject to treatment, a remark, etc. that hurts or is meant to
hurt the feelings or pride

=======================================================
Subject: Re: Katrina was not a natural catastrophe but a man-made one

From: Stan Caldwell <stancaldwell@gmail.com>
To: seaint@seaint.org

Professor Astaneh:

You are obviously ......

Regards,

Stan R. Caldwell, P.E., SECB
Plano, Texas

/=====================================
/

******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
* Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
*
* This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
* Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
* subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
*
* http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
*
* Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
* send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
* without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
* site at: http://www.seaint.org
******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

Re: Katrina was not a natural catastrophe but a man-made one

I don't believe for a minute that I know all the facts, but it is my
understanding that the flooding of New Orleans was caused by a great
many things, all of which acted together:

1) Katrina dumped a lot of water on New Orleans and the Mississippi
River region

2) The people of New Orleans built up the city on land that would
have been underwater, if not for the levees

3) The Corps design was probably inadequate (that is from news
accounts, not from any personal knowledge)

4) Congress wouldn't/couldn't provide enough funds to produce an
adequate levee system

5) Vegetation (namely trees) were allowed to root into the levees,
thereby damaging the stability of the levees

6) Several of the primary pumping systems failed (whether due to
inadequate maintenance or an overload situation, I don't know)

Yes, a lot of people blame the US Army Corps of Engineers (note the
word "engineers" in the name) but there is plenty of blame to go
around. Yes, Katrina WAS the precipitating factor, however, there
were a lot of factors that contributed to the flooding. Despite all
the efforts being made, I can pretty well GUARANTEE that New Orleans
will flood again at some point in its future. I can also GUARANTEE
that San Francisco and Los Angeles will be hit by a devastating
earthquake, that the Dallas/Ft. Worth downtown areas will be hit by a
major tornado, that Miami will suffer major damage from a Category 5
hurricane, and even that some day (hopefully in the far, distant
future) the Earth will be struck by a meteorite of sufficient size to
cause another ice age. So get over it!

If anyone is going to help protect us from natural disasters, it will
be engineers. Let's act like professionals, learn from the past and
move on to the future.

As a side note, I think the YouTube clip was funny in that it
appeared the New Orleans City Council missed the whole point of the
activist group and kept referring to the Katrina Flooding. Just like
it is easier to call H1N1 the "swine flu", it is easier to call the
New Orleans flooding "Katrina". Even the title of this thread misses
the point. Katrina was a hurricane, and as such it was a natural
phenomenon (unless you want to get off into conspiracy theories). The
flooding of New Orleans contained man-made components. The two things
are different. We are turning into a nation that makes life-changing
decisions based on "sound bites".

Thank you, Stan and Dr. Astaneh for BOTH your points of view.

Jay Shilstone

At 09:08 PM 11/23/2009, you wrote:
>Professor Astaneh:
>
>You are obviously long overdue for your reality check. Please repeat after
>me:
>
>1) "Hurricane Katrina flooded New Orleans."
>
>2) "Terrorists destroyed the WTC towers."
>
>The facts are what the facts are, whether the good people in New Orleans and
>Berkeley like it or not.
>
>Now that the facts are clear, it might also be a good time to stop
>mindlessly bashing ASCE, the USACE, and Caltrans. Your endless cheap shots
>have no effect except to make you look like a malcontent idiot.
>
>Regards,
>
>Stan R. Caldwell, P.E., SECB
>Plano, Texas
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl <
>astaneh@ce.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
> > Please see the following YouTube news story to see what people think about
> > us engineers specially about Corps of Engineers and what it did
> in design of
> > levees in New Orleans.
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28jPUWDX_bA
> >
> > Regards
> > "Hassan"
> >
> > Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl, Ph.D., P.E., Professor
> > UC-Berkeley
> >
> >
>
>

RE: screws to WF

Note, the screws have 24 threads per inch,

Bill

From: Harold Sprague [mailto:spraguehope@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 1:23 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: RE: screws to WF

Check out the data sheets. http://www.njb-united.com/usd/ddds.htm
Of particular interest is the data sheets at the end for combined shear and uplift. Numbers 46 thru 49.

Regards, Harold Sprague

> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:00:38 +0000
> From: akester@cfl.rr.com
> To: seaint@seaint.org
> Subject: re: screws to WF
>
> If attaching to WF beams, most erectors I have come across prefer puddle welds. I have been told anything over maybe 3/16" or 1/4" (the max thickness of most joist top chords I think) just becomes a big pain, screws break and it is difficult. I have had RFIs to switch and gladly went along with that. After a couple such requests we put puddle welds as an option right on the drawings.
>
> LGSEA has several screw tables with shear, tension, pullout and pullover values, but likely if you use screws to attach to a WF beam it will be governed in uplift by pullover of the deck, not a failure of the screw. I would anticipate 18ga should give you some pretty good pullover values and may push the limit of the screw itself.
>
> Not sure about ICC approvals...
>
> Andrew Kester, PE
> Florida
>
>
> -------------------------
>
> I don't know about ICC approval but United Steel Deck catalog discusses
> screws along with welds. I would think screws would be acceptable if PAF's
> are. The screws have a large head than many of PAF's. The PAF's sometimes
> bounce rather than penetrate according to one craftsman (operator issue.)
> Hilti and the Steel Stud Manufacturers have values for screws and welds for
> light gage metal thicknesses to "heavy gage" steel.
>
> Glenn C. Otto, P.E.
> A Structural Engineer, P.C.
> Virginia Beach, VA 23454
> www.astructuralengineeronline.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Drew Morris [dmorris@bbfm.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 6:09 PM
> To: SEAINT
> Subject: Steel roof deck attached using screws
>
> Does anyone know of a steel roof deck manufacturer (1 1/2" 18 ga) that
> has ICC approval for steel deck fastened to W beams using screws? I can
> find reports of decks attached with spot welds and powder actuated
> fasteners.
>
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> * send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> * site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

Windows 7: I wanted simpler, now it's simpler. I'm a rock star.

Mat Foundation

Jason,

I have used ADAPT MAT for many years and find it to be quite flexible for mat foundation design. I like it because it doesn't have any modeling limitations and generates all of the rebar drawings for me.

Ahmad

-----Original Message-----

From: Jason Christensen [mailto:jason@wcaeng.com]=20

Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 1:19 PM

To: seaint@seaint.org

Subject: Mat Foundation

I have a 5 story structure that is going to be support by a mat =

foundation. The structure is a bearing wall type building with =

uniformly space bearing walls at 10ft. Does anyone have and example or =

reference for designing such a foundation. Any recommended software

Thanks in advance

jason

RE: Katrina was not a natural catastrophe but a man-made one

Lighten up Francis.

RE: Re: Katrina was not a natural catastrophe but a man-made one

That's a little overboard. Slightly insulting, sure, but hate mail?

And I have to point out – what happened to freedom of speech?

From: extreme.fiber@gmail.com [mailto:extreme.fiber@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:42 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: Re: Katrina was not a natural catastrophe but a man-made one

Is this a joke? "Hate"? Am I missing something here?????

On Nov 24, 2009 10:33am, Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl <astaneh@ce.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To: Stan R. Caldwell, P.E., SECB,
>
>
> Vice Presidentand and Manager of the Structures Group
>
>
> Halff Associates, Inc., 1201 North Bowser Road
>
>
> Richardson, TX 75081-2275
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl, Ph.D., P.E.
>
>
> Professor
>
>
> Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering
>
>
> 781 Davis Hall,
>
>
> University of California, Berkeley, CA, 94720-1710
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: November 24, 2009
>
>
>
>
>
> Subject: Your November 23, 2009 Hate Mail and Insult Directed towards me
>
>
>
>
>
> This is to formally notify you that your posting of Nov. 23, 2009 on the Seaint forum (redacted below) constitutes "hate mail" and personal "insult" directed towards me and posted in a public forum for all to read. Your posting is unlawful and has caused and will continue to cause great harm and injury to me , my family and friends, my students, my clients and the fine University of California, where I am a professor. Since these postings are read throughout the world and remain on the Internet forever, even after I pass and no longer able to defend myself and my honor, the damage that you have caused will continue to hurt me and my family long after even have passed away. Unless you duly and immediately post an apology to me as well all who have read your posting, promise not to commit such an unlawful act in the future, ask Seaint to remove your posting and resign from being a member of this respected forum, I will consider seeking remedy through our judicial system for the harm and injury that you have caused. Furthermore, I will also report this extreme violation of Canons of Code of Ethics for Engineers issued by the National Society of Professional Engineers fro registered Professional Engineers, such as yourself to follow, and seek an investigation of the case.
>
>
>
>
>
> With a copy of this to Seaint, I am also putting Seaint on notice that I consider the officers of Seaint an accomplice to what you have done since Seaint has not posted policy on abuse while notifying users not to use Seaint posts in unlawful manner for hate mail and personal insult and have not provided a mechanism for "report abuse" as is common in forums on the internet. Unless Seaint removes your posting immediately for abusing these pages and prevents you from abusing the forum to commit an illegal act, I may consider taking my case against Seaint to the judiciary as well.
>
>
>
>
>
> For your information, here are the definitions of "hate mail" and "insult" below.
>
>
>
>
>
> From Wikiepedia:
>
>
>
>
>
> *Hate mail* (as electronic http://www.answers.com/topic/e-mail>, posted http://www.answers.com/topic/mail>, or otherwise) is a form of harassment http://www.answers.com/topic/harassment>, usually consisting of invective and potentially intimidating or threatening comments towards the recipient. Hate mail often contains exceptionally abusive, foul or otherwise hurtful language.
>
>
>
>
>
> The recipient may receive disparaging remarks concerning the subject's ethnicity http://www.answers.com/topic/ethnic>, sexuality http://www.answers.com/topic/human-sexual-behavior>, religion http://www.answers.com/topic/religion>, intelligence http://www.answers.com/topic/intelligence>, political ideology http://www.answers.com/topic/ideologies-of-parties>, sense of ethics http://www.answers.com/topic/ethics-legal-term>, or sense of aesthetics http://www.answers.com/topic/aesthetics>. The text of hate mail often contains profanity http://www.answers.com/topic/profanity>, or it may simply contain a negative, disappropriating message.
>
>
>
>
>
> From http://www.yourdictionary.com/insult
>
>
>
>
>
> in·sult (in sult*′*; /for n./ in*′*sult′)
>
>
>
>
>
> transitive verb
>
>
>
>
>
> 1. to treat or speak to with scorn, insolence, or great disrespect;
>
>
> subject to treatment, a remark, etc. that hurts or is meant to
>
>
> hurt the feelings or pride
>
>
>
>
>
> =======================================================
>
>
> Subject: Re: Katrina was not a natural catastrophe but a man-made one
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Stan Caldwell stancaldwell@gmail.com>
>
>
> To: seaint@seaint.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Professor Astaneh:
>
>
>
>
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> You are obviously ......
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> Regards,
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> Stan R. Caldwell, P.E., SECB
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> Plano, Texas
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> /=====================================
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> /
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