Structural Engineering: 2007-09-16

Saturday, September 22, 2007

Re: Strengthening Concrete Buildings - A Live Interactive ASCE Web Seminar

David Merrick wrote:

Recall this offer:

ASCE Continuing Education
"Pay a single site registration fee and an unlimited number of people in your organization can attend at that site."

Why not discounts for individual practitioners.

All in my group are paying dues, All in my group have the new codes and everyone goes to the seminars of my choice, so how about some discounts for my group of me, myself and I?

ASCE considers you the "backbone" of their Continuing Education efforts! Sort of like those who make $50,000 per year or more in the U.S. are asked to "contribute" a bit more so that all may benefit - therefore, they pay all the taxes while the "Lucky Duckies" pay none.

It's your civic and social duty, you see!

Re: Tarik Berair/TECHNIP is out of the office

TBerair@technip.com wrote:
> I will be out of the office starting 21/09/2007 and will not return until
> 19/10/2007.
>
> Out of the office on vacation.
>
Man, this is really THE PLACE to get up-to-date information that you
just can't get anywhere else, innit?

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Re: PROF ASTANEH AND STRUCTURAL DISASTERS

ASC wrote:

Blank
With respect to WTC he had a point:

If the building were constructed according to the Code,

it would have a reserve of strength, or, in other words, would

not be so flimsy.

And if the natives on Skull Island had built that wall more sturdy, Kong would have never escaped and destroyed their village.

I heard they roasted the EOR slowly over a spit, and had a big ol' barbecue after that little adventure.

Jeff Giger/DAN/Minerals/METSO is out of the office.

I will be out of the office starting 09/22/2007 and will not return until
10/01/2007.

I will respond to your message when I return. For further needed assistance
call Barry Trumbauer at 271-7691 or Dave Ernest at 271-7665.

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Friday, September 21, 2007

Seminars (was Wood Design)

I am as small as they get (one man shop, part time while I'm back in
school). To me, even as a small shop the capital cost of the seminar is
insignificant compared to the time I take to go and the impact on my other
work/obligations; for me it's less of a question of how much the seminar
provider charges than a concern that they don't waste my time with sales
pitches, poor teaching skills, or useless info.

If the content is good, it can save days of design time and help me produce
a more efficient design, which translates to efficiencies that far outweigh
the registration fee and reduced risk. If not, it costs the entry fee, the
lost revenue, the schedule delay, and the travel costs not to mention the
1-3 days of my life that I'll never get back. Of those, the seminar cost is
the least of my concerns. If the seminar is junk, you can get a refund for
the purchase price but you can't get the time back.

I like ASCE because in my experience, they have fairly good QC on content.

Shaun Dustin, MS, PE
Doctoral Candidate
USTAR Biofuels Initiative
Utah State University
4130 Old Main Hill
Logan, UT 84322
sdustin@cc.usu.edu
435-770-7816

-----Original Message-----
From: James Cohen [mailto:jccpc@msn.com]
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 8:32 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: RE: Wood Design

You may want to try AITC as well.

Yes, it's a shame about the cost for ASCE seminars.

Straw poll: how many sole practitioners out there have paid for an ASCE
seminar?

How many from small firms.

How many from large firms.

If there's enough of a response, perhaps we can lean on ASCE to scale costs
to revenue?

James Cohen, PE
James Cohen Consulting, PC
Tel: 267-757-0710
http://expertpages.com/jccpc

-----Original Message-----
From: Zaitz, Michael [mailto:mzaitz@kerncoleman.com]
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 8:45 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Wood Design

Any wood design seminars out there that people have experience with as to
how practical they are? Preferably out east. I have found the ASCE Seminar
and also one in Roanoke, VA but would like to get the most for my money for
practical design of wood. I am short a few hours for my PDH's at the moment
and figured wood would be a good subject!

Thanks,

Mike
This electronic message and any attachments are confidential property of
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person to whom it is addressed. Any other interception, copying, accessing,
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Re: FURTHER ON WTC

Chris,

Well put, Chris.

Regards,

H. Daryl Richardson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Wright" <chrisw@skypoint.com>
To: <seaint@seaint.org>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: FURTHER ON WTC

>
> On Sep 21, 2007, at 11:09 AM, Gerard Madden, SE wrote:
>
>> People can second guess the truss connections all they want, but
>> the fact is they are gravity connections and performed fine up
>> until they were asked to do something unintended.
>>
>> Can a sprinkler system be expected to put out a fire like that and
>> save the building? No. Was the facade supposed to shred up the
>> airplane and withstand blast pressures? No.
>>
>> Simple as that.
> Not quite that simple, especially if the questions are posed to learn
> something, rather than sharp-shoot the design. Sharp-shooting is bad
> all around as are phrases like 'moral corruption,' because they don't
> contribute anything worthwhile.
>
> A worthwhile effort would begin by contrasting the 9/11 attacks with
> the B-25 crash into the Empire State building in which the building
> remained standing and the toll was 14 dead. The episodes differed
> greatly in matters of fire safety, the nature of the aircraft and
> building structure. I'd think that somewhere between those two
> episodes there's a point where building design can be improved to
> withstand accidents of the sort. There's no reason to believe that an
> airplane couldn't hit another tall building, even by accident, and
> it's worthwhile considering corrective measures. But just calling a
> designer morally corrupt and blaming a lot of people without
> presenting firm evidence is just whiney and demeaning.
>
> Christopher Wright P.E. |"They couldn't hit an elephant at
> chrisw@skypoint.com | this distance" (last words of Gen.
> .......................................| John Sedgwick, Spotsylvania
> 1864)
> http://www.skypoint.com/~chrisw/
>
>
>
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> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> *

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> *
> * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> * send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> * site at: http://www.seaint.org

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>

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RE: Wood Design

I don't go to ASCE seminars because I think they are too expensive.

Bob Garner, S.E.

-----Original Message-----
From: James Cohen [mailto:jccpc@msn.com]
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 7:32 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: RE: Wood Design

You may want to try AITC as well.

Yes, it's a shame about the cost for ASCE seminars.

Straw poll: how many sole practitioners out there have paid for an ASCE
seminar?

How many from small firms.

How many from large firms.

If there's enough of a response, perhaps we can lean on ASCE to scale
costs
to revenue?

James Cohen, PE
James Cohen Consulting, PC
Tel: 267-757-0710
http://expertpages.com/jccpc

-----Original Message-----
From: Zaitz, Michael [mailto:mzaitz@kerncoleman.com]
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 8:45 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Wood Design

Any wood design seminars out there that people have experience with as
to
how practical they are? Preferably out east. I have found the ASCE
Seminar
and also one in Roanoke, VA but would like to get the most for my money
for
practical design of wood. I am short a few hours for my PDH's at the
moment
and figured wood would be a good subject!

Thanks,

Mike
This electronic message and any attachments are confidential property of
Kern-Coleman & Co. LLC. The information is intended only for the use of
the
person to whom it is addressed. Any other interception, copying,
accessing,
or disclosure of this message is prohibited. If you have received this
message in error, please immediately notify Kern-Coleman & Co. Do not
forward this message without permission.

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9/20/2007
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Re: FURTHER ON WTC

On Sep 21, 2007, at 11:09 AM, Gerard Madden, SE wrote:

> People can second guess the truss connections all they want, but
> the fact is they are gravity connections and performed fine up
> until they were asked to do something unintended.
>
> Can a sprinkler system be expected to put out a fire like that and
> save the building? No. Was the facade supposed to shred up the
> airplane and withstand blast pressures? No.
>
> Simple as that.
Not quite that simple, especially if the questions are posed to learn
something, rather than sharp-shoot the design. Sharp-shooting is bad
all around as are phrases like 'moral corruption,' because they don't
contribute anything worthwhile.

A worthwhile effort would begin by contrasting the 9/11 attacks with
the B-25 crash into the Empire State building in which the building
remained standing and the toll was 14 dead. The episodes differed
greatly in matters of fire safety, the nature of the aircraft and
building structure. I'd think that somewhere between those two
episodes there's a point where building design can be improved to
withstand accidents of the sort. There's no reason to believe that an
airplane couldn't hit another tall building, even by accident, and
it's worthwhile considering corrective measures. But just calling a
designer morally corrupt and blaming a lot of people without
presenting firm evidence is just whiney and demeaning.

Christopher Wright P.E. |"They couldn't hit an elephant at
chrisw@skypoint.com | this distance" (last words of Gen.
.......................................| John Sedgwick, Spotsylvania
1864)
http://www.skypoint.com/~chrisw/

******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

RE: Swimming pool concrete fill

This is a concrete pool and will continue to be a concrete pool - i.e. no liners, no panels, etc. Unless vermiculite+portland cement can be used without the liner, I'm not sure that this is the correct product. I have told the owner not to order a typical slab mix until we can verify what mix design is appropriate in a pool. But maybe a common slab mix is okay?

They have thus far concluded that they will use a sand fill with a 12" reinforced concrete slab. The slab will be keyed into a 1" deep saw cut joint in the existing walls. Probably 1/2" diameter dowels around the perimeter to tie the two togther. They will drain the pool every year to repaint and to recaulk the cold joint. This seems like a hideous detail, but its their pool, not mine.

Jim

Christopher Banbury <cbanbury@arkengineering.net> wrote:

I generally pass on pool projects since in my experience most pool designs seem to defy rational analysis at one point or another. There are also many non-structural aspects of the design that one must be acquainted with such as water tightness, accessibility, codes governing depth, the slope of the bottom, drain locations, etc. If you are the only design professional involved in the project then you are "the nail that sticks up the highest" and will likely shoulder responsibility for many of these issues.

To avoid new settlement concerns, mass concrete concerns and to save the client money, you might consider 4'+ of sand, a vinyl liner, and a perlite or vermiculite bottom. I recommend consulting a grey haired pool contractor since they will have a lot of experience in the holistics of pool design and construction.

There is some good information here

http://www.schundler.com/swim.htm

Christopher Banbury, PE

President

Ark Engineering, Inc.

PO Box 10129, Brooksville, FL 34603

22 North Broad ST, Brooksville, FL 34601

Phone: (352) 754-2424

Fax: (352) 754-2412

www.arkengineering.net

From: Jim Wilson [mailto:wilsonengineers@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 9:01 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Swimming pool concrete fill

A client intends to fill a 9' deep pool with 5' of concrete to make a wading pool for the elderly. Are there any particular concerns with the mix design to mitigate chemical reactions between pool chemicals and components in the mix? If not, would a simple 3000lb or 4000lb mix suffice? I am thinking that they should place the final 6" in a separate lift to reduce cracking and facilitate finishing.

The client expects to have a cold joint around the perimeter that will need to be sealed. They intend to drain and repaint the pool every year, so maintenance of the joint will not be too great of an issue.

Jim Wilson, PE

Stroudsburg, PA

Re: FURTHER ON WTC

The point is, the blame is on the terrorists.

People can second guess the truss connections all they want, but the fact is they are gravity connections and performed fine up until they were asked to do something unintended.

Can a sprinkler system be expected to put out a fire like that and save the building? No. Was the facade supposed to shred up the airplane and withstand blast pressures? No.

Simple as that.

The collapse mechanism theories I have no quarrels with (except for the ones spewing controlled demolition), I only take issue with people claiming the structural design was flawed and this event proved it. It wasn't and this event was not in the design criteria.

-g

On 9/21/07, ASC <ggg@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

GM WROTE:

***But I am aware of at least one 'flimsiness' aspect, that was the most
likely contributing
cause to WTC collapse.***

That would be the airplane crashing into it at a high velocity fully loaded
with jet fuel with the fire that ensued.

"flimsiness" is not something I'd classify the WTC as. I haven't studied it
in detail like Dr. Astaneh, but I believe his flimsiness comment was in
relation to the Sears Tower.

Why was the Sears Tower not flimsy or as flimsy? Because it was designed for
a purposeful airplane attack? No, not likely. It was probably "more sturdy"
for a number of reasons including it being taller, it being in a high wind
zone, and the decisions made by Fazlur Khan to overcome those design
challenges. I doubt seriously that it was because he was trying to comply
with some provision in the local building code. His decisions were obviously
different than Robertson's, but that is likely highly dependent on the
forces from wind testing, story heights, the architectural requirements of
the exterior look of the building, and the nature of the building not being
as slender since it's footprint grows at the lower stories. The buildings
are different and of course economics played a role.

Tall buildings can make people sea sick if they are too flimsy. Tuned Mass
Dampers lessen that effect. Would Le Messier's (SP) building withstand a jet
impact? Is his building Too Flimsy? He corrected a construction flaw to his
credit, but if those planes hit his high profile high rise, would he be
considered "morally corrupt?"

If the WTC was built to the NY building code, would it have withstood the
collision and fire without collapse? I don't know and I'm pretty sure no one
knows that answer. What exact code deviation is the most significant factor
in this "flimsy" categorization? Live Loads, Wind Loads, Drift???

REPLY:

Your guess as to flimsiness was not what I had in mind.

I did study the building.

You meant the over-all flexibility, which would be expressed in story drift.

I did not mean that, and there is no grounds for such an allegation.

It is generally agreed that the bldg survive the airplane impact and that

it collapsed due to secondary causes of that event.

Sincerely, Gregory from Oz

--
-gm

RE: Wood Design

Frank Woeste offers a course:

Frank Woeste, Ph.D., P.E.
Tel. 540-951-0469
Our next VT Course:
Wind Load Design for Wood-Frame Buildings-Prescriptive and Engineering
October 23-25, 2007, Hotel Roanoke and Conference Center, Roanoke, Virginia.
For detailed course information, please visit

www.cpe.vt.edu/sdww/

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: Zaitz, Michael [mailto:mzaitz@kerncoleman.com]
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 06:45
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Wood Design

Any wood design seminars out there that people have experience with as to how practical they are? Preferably out east. I have found the ASCE Seminar and also one in Roanoke, VA but would like to get the most for my money for practical design of wood. I am short a few hours for my PDH's at the moment and figured wood would be a good subject!

Thanks,

Mike
This electronic message and any attachments are confidential property of Kern-Coleman & Co. LLC. The information is intended only for the use of the person to whom it is addressed. Any other interception, copying, accessing, or disclosure of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify Kern-Coleman & Co. Do not forward this message without permission.

RE: Wood Design

You may want to try AITC as well.

Yes, it's a shame about the cost for ASCE seminars.

Straw poll: how many sole practitioners out there have paid for an ASCE
seminar?

How many from small firms.

How many from large firms.

If there's enough of a response, perhaps we can lean on ASCE to scale costs
to revenue?

James Cohen, PE
James Cohen Consulting, PC
Tel: 267-757-0710
http://expertpages.com/jccpc

-----Original Message-----
From: Zaitz, Michael [mailto:mzaitz@kerncoleman.com]
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 8:45 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Wood Design

Thanks,

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RE: Wood Design

Simpson always does a good job on their seminars.

Bks

-----Original Message-----
From: Zaitz, Michael [mailto:mzaitz@kerncoleman.com]
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 8:45 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Wood Design

Thanks,

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RE: Gypsum wallboard shearwalls

I walked through a lot of severely damaged buildings with gyp. Bd. shear
walls in the '94 quake and vowed never to use it again as a shear resisting
material EVER.

Two problems in my view. First, it stinks as a lateral resisting element;
it gets cut up and pieced whenever needed, and second, I like it when a GC
starts a remodel, opens up a wall, finds plywood and immediately thinks he's
found a shear wall and (if he knows anything about construction) acts much
more cautiously. That never happens with drywall shear walls because there
is no distinction; it's just another wall.

-DB

-----Original Message-----
From: Drew Morris [mailto:dmorris@bbfm.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 6:11 PM
To: SEAINT
Subject: Gypsum wallboard shearwalls

We are having a minor discussion in our office over gypsum wall board as
shearwalls. The 2006 IBC gives allowable shearwall values (Table
2306.4.5) for unblocked and blocked walls for wind and seismic loading.
The IBC 2006 references ASCE 7-05 which list this type of load bearing
walls in Table 12.2.1 (Line A/15) with R=2. In Seismic Design Category
D, buildings with these shearwalls are permitted but limited to 35 feet
in height. Can you use gypsum wall board for shearwalls? Some of us
thought that this type of shearwall was not allowed in SDC D.

******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

Wood Design

Any wood design seminars out there that people have experience with as to how practical they are? Preferably out east. I have found the ASCE Seminar and also one in Roanoke, VA but would like to get the most for my money for practical design of wood. I am short a few hours for my PDH's at the moment and figured wood would be a good subject!

Thanks,

Mike
This electronic message and any attachments are confidential property of Kern-Coleman & Co. LLC. The information is intended only for the use of the person to whom it is addressed. Any other interception, copying, accessing, or disclosure of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify Kern-Coleman & Co. Do not forward this message without permission.

strengthening steel joists for shear

Hi,

I'm looking for some guidance on strengthening existing steel floor joists for shear and have a few questions.

For a wide flange beam, we'd typically add some shear stiffeners or gussets. Is the same approach applicable for an open web steel joist? Can i just add some angles to the web?

How about reinforcing at the bearing ends, can i just add a piece of hss 2.5 x 2.5 to either side of the joist seat?

I appreciate any comments you may have.

Thanks,

Alden

Gypsum wallboard shearwalls

AF&PA's Special Design Provisions for Wind and Seismic, 2005 Edition [ http://www.awc.org/Standards/SDPWS.html ] (section 4.3.7.4) and the Wood Frame Construction Manual (WFCM) for One- and Two-Family Dwellings, 2001 Edition [ http://www.awc.org/Standards/wfcm.html ] (Table 3C) permit gypsum shear walls in SDC A through D. Both standards are referenced in the IBC.

HTH

Buddy

John "Buddy" Showalter, P.E.
Director, Technical Media
AF&PA/American Wood Council
1111 19th Street, NW, Suite 800
Washington, DC 20036
P: 202-463-2769
F: 202-463-2791
http://www.awc.org

The American Wood Council (AWC) is the wood products division of the American Forest & Paper Association (AF&PA). AWC develops internationally recognized standards for wood design and construction. Its efforts with building codes and standards, engineering and research, and technology transfer ensure proper application for engineered and traditional wood products.

*********************
The guidance provided herein is not a formal interpretation of any AF&PA standard. Interpretations of AF&PA standards are only available through a formal process outlined in AF&PA's standards development procedures.

*********************

From: Drew Morris <dmorris@bbfm.com>
To: SEAINT <seaint@seaint.org>
Subject: Gypsum wallboard shearwalls
We are having a minor discussion in our office over gypsum wall board as
shearwalls. The 2006 IBC gives allowable shearwall values (Table
2306.4.5) for unblocked and blocked walls for wind and seismic loading.
The IBC 2006 references ASCE 7-05 which list this type of load bearing
walls in Table 12.2.1 (Line A/15) with R=2. In Seismic Design Category
D, buildings with these shearwalls are permitted but limited to 35 feet
in height. Can you use gypsum wall board for shearwalls? Some of us
thought that this type of shearwall was not allowed in SDC D.

Re: Gypsum wallboard shearwalls

I know you can in C and below. Y'all might have to scrutinize the D and up.

My concern has been attachment. I'm a bit of a stickler on "real" construction.

Most tables are based on drywall nails. Most contractors use screws.

Last time I checked, there were only 2 screw mf'rs that had code approvals for rated screws for shearwalls, and they're more expensive. OFF-THE-SHELF DRYALL SCREWS WILL NOT WORK IN SHEARWALLS. They are too thin and too brittle and will break. I will only spec them if I expect proper screws will be provided, and QA will check. I've had to require re-attachment several times.

JDCoombs

>>> Drew Morris <dmorris@bbfm.com> 9/20/2007 8:11 PM >>>
We are having a minor discussion in our office over gypsum wall board as
shearwalls. The 2006 IBC gives allowable shearwall values (Table
2306.4.5) for unblocked and blocked walls for wind and seismic loading.
The IBC 2006 references ASCE 7-05 which list this type of load bearing
walls in Table 12.2.1 (Line A/15) with R=2. In Seismic Design Category
D, buildings with these shearwalls are permitted but limited to 35 feet
in height. Can you use gypsum wall board for shearwalls? Some of us
thought that this type of shearwall was not allowed in SDC D.

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Re: Deformed wire anchor (DWA) design

Hello! Mr. Nam

I'm sure DWA is the one of the best way to avoid the ACI code.

Good Luck to you!!!!

----- Original Message -----

From: 남윤호

To: seaint@seaint.org

Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 2:57 AM

Subject: Deformed wire anchor (DWA) design

Dear All:

I am going to design embedded plate using deformed wire anchor (DWA).

However, ACI 318-05 App. D did not mention any anchor design for DWA.

Therefore, I would like to design DWA using Chapter 12 of ACI code "Development of reinforcement".

Is the above assumption reasonable and do I need other concrete cone failure check for shear loading?

Thanks in advance.

Yoon-Ho Nam

본 메일은 중요정보나 비밀 정보가 포함되어 있을 수 있으므로 이 정보를 전체적으로나 부분 적으로 무단 공개, 배포, 복사하거나 사용할 수 없습니다. 만약 귀하가 정당한 수신인이 아니라면 본 메일을 발신인에게 즉시 회신하신 후에 삭제하여 주시기 바랍니다.

본 메일에 포함되거나 함께 전송된 데이터를 사용함에 따라 귀사 전산시스템에 발생할 수 있는 어떠한 오류나 누락, 훼손에 대하여 회사는 책임지지 않습니다.

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FURTHER ON WTC

GM WROTE:

***But I am aware of at least one 'flimsiness' aspect, that was the most
likely contributing
cause to WTC collapse.***

That would be the airplane crashing into it at a high velocity fully loaded
with jet fuel with the fire that ensued.

"flimsiness" is not something I'd classify the WTC as. I haven't studied it
in detail like Dr. Astaneh, but I believe his flimsiness comment was in
relation to the Sears Tower.

Why was the Sears Tower not flimsy or as flimsy? Because it was designed for
a purposeful airplane attack? No, not likely. It was probably "more sturdy"
for a number of reasons including it being taller, it being in a high wind
zone, and the decisions made by Fazlur Khan to overcome those design
challenges. I doubt seriously that it was because he was trying to comply
with some provision in the local building code. His decisions were obviously
different than Robertson's, but that is likely highly dependent on the
forces from wind testing, story heights, the architectural requirements of
the exterior look of the building, and the nature of the building not being
as slender since it's footprint grows at the lower stories. The buildings
are different and of course economics played a role.

Tall buildings can make people sea sick if they are too flimsy. Tuned Mass
Dampers lessen that effect. Would Le Messier's (SP) building withstand a jet
impact? Is his building Too Flimsy? He corrected a construction flaw to his
credit, but if those planes hit his high profile high rise, would he be
considered "morally corrupt?"

If the WTC was built to the NY building code, would it have withstood the
collision and fire without collapse? I don't know and I'm pretty sure no one
knows that answer. What exact code deviation is the most significant factor
in this "flimsy" categorization? Live Loads, Wind Loads, Drift???

REPLY:

Your guess as to flimsiness was not what I had in mind.

I did study the building.

You meant the over-all flexibility, which would be expressed in story drift.

I did not mean that, and there is no grounds for such an allegation.

It is generally agreed that the bldg survive the airplane impact and that

it collapsed due to secondary causes of that event.

Sincerely, Gregory from Oz

Thursday, September 20, 2007

Re: Gypsum wallboard shearwalls

It's not allowed in California seismic zone 4 under current UBC modifications by most local building departments.

-g

On 9/20/07, Drew Morris < dmorris@bbfm.com> wrote:

We are having a minor discussion in our office over gypsum wall board as
shearwalls.  The 2006 IBC gives allowable shearwall values (Table
2306.4.5) for unblocked and blocked walls for wind and seismic loading.
The IBC 2006 references ASCE 7-05 which list this type of load bearing
walls in Table 12.2.1 (Line A/15) with R=2.  In Seismic Design Category
D, buildings with these shearwalls are permitted but limited to 35 feet
in height.  Can you use gypsum wall board for shearwalls?  Some of us
thought that this type of shearwall was not allowed in SDC D.

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--
-gm

Tarik Berair/TECHNIP is out of the office

I will be out of the office starting 21/09/2007 and will not return until
19/10/2007.

Out of the office on vacation.

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Gypsum wallboard shearwalls

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Re: Prescriptive foundation bolt table for CMU

It is in the 97 UBC

Tarek Mokhtar, SE

>Recently I stumbled across a design table for hooked anchor bolts in
>cmu foundation walls, and - now that it would be convenient use on a
>small job - I can't find it and can't even remember what code book
>it was in. Does anyone know of such a table in the IRC or IBC?
>
>--
>Jordan
>
>
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RE: Swimming pool concrete fill

Return Receipt

Your RE: Swimming pool concrete fill
document:

was TMittra@CBI.com
received
by:

at: 09/20/2007 01:47:05 PM

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RE: Prescriptive foundation bolt table for CMU

You may have seen it in the IRC. The 2005 NDS (Table 11E) has shear values
for bolts into concrete at sill plate applications. Assumes 2,500 psi
concrete. HTH

David A. Topete, SE

-----Original Message-----
From: Jordan Truesdell, PE [mailto:seaint1@truesdellengineering.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:21 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Prescriptive foundation bolt table for CMU

Recently I stumbled across a design table for hooked anchor bolts in cmu
foundation walls, and - now that it would be convenient use on a small
job - I can't find it and can't even remember what code book it was in.
Does anyone know of such a table in the IRC or IBC?

--
Jordan

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Prescriptive foundation bolt table for CMU

--
Jordan

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Re: Strengthening Concrete Buildings - A Live Interactive ASCE Web Seminar

Recall this offer:

ASCE Continuing Education
"Pay a single site registration fee and an unlimited number of people in
your organization can attend at that site."

Why not discounts for individual practitioners.

All in my group are paying dues, All in my group have the new codes and
everyone goes to the seminars of my choice, so how about some discounts
for my group of me, myself and I?

David Merrick, SE
Sacramento, CA

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RE: Swimming pool concrete fill

I'd fill it with dirt, and place an aluminum or fiberglass pre-fab pool in the hole. Phenomenally fewer problems... and likely cheaper in the long run.

Flowable fill is often more expensive than concrete, and no benefit in this case. Retarders and flyash would reduce heat of hydration.

Aggregate base would fill w/ water and cause problems. The foam idea would also get water between the original pool and foam and would float the slab right out when drained for maint.

jdc

>>> "Garner, Robert" <rgarner@moffattnichol.com> 9/19/2007 4:11 PM >>>

I think the term "flowable fill" is a new term and you might ask the ready-mix plants for a lean concrete mix, or just a standard concrete mix with only 1 c.y. of cement in it. Some people call this a 500 psi mix or a "diggable" mix.

Bob

From: Jim Wilson [mailto:wilsonengineers@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 11:55 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: Swimming pool concrete fill

Thought about the sand - they are concerned that existing cracks in the pool and a high water table could lead to erosion of the sand. Maybe wrapping it in a 6mil barrier would protect it adequately. Then again, there could be an issue with slab uplift on sand when they drain the pool, especially if they drain it in the winter months.

Flowable fill is great, but I've tried the redi-mix plants on this before and they really don't know the product. The volume doesn't warrant the hurdles. This is the Poconos after all....

Gravel could work, but they like the speed with which the hole can be filled with concrete.

And for the record, this is not an engineered design and I am not sealing or stamping or detailing anything. And I'm not about to formally design an infill slab on fill within an existing non-engineered pool. I'm just raising issues for an old-time mason and a site superintendent to think about.

Jim

"Jordan Truesdell, PE" <seaint1@truesdellengineering.com> wrote:

If you plan on a slab on top, presumably placed with reinforcing to
control cracking, could you do the first placement of the bulk material
with a flowable fill (250+/-psi) mix, or even a compacted, well-graded
stone?

Jordan

Jim Wilson wrote:
> A client intends to fill a 9' deep pool with 5' of concrete to make a
> wading pool for the elderly. Are there any particular concerns with
> the mix design to mitigate chemical reactions between pool chemicals
> and components in the mix? If not, would a simple 3000lb or
> 4000lb mix suffice? I am thinking that they should place the final 6"
> in a separate lift to reduce cracking and facilitate finishing.
>
> The client expects to have a cold joint around the perimeter that will
> need to be sealed. They intend to drain and repaint the pool every
> year, so maintenance of the joint will not be too great of an issue.
>
> Jim Wilson, PE
> Stroudsburg, PA

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RE: Swimming pool concrete fill

Robert Garner said, “I think the term "flowable fill" is a new term and you might ask the

ready-mix plants for a lean concrete mix, or just a standard concrete mix with only 1 c.y. of cement in it. Some people call this a 500 psi mix or a "diggable" mix.”

And tell the ready-mix supplier that flowable fill is an opportunity for them to use up any left-over aggregate they may have bought for a special project that is now wasting their yard space.

Jim Getaz

Winchester, Virginia

Re: PROF ASTANEH AND STRUCTURAL DISASTERS

Gregory from Oz wrote:

***But I am aware of at least one 'flimsiness' aspect, that was the most likely contributing

cause to WTC collapse.***

That would be the airplane crashing into it at a high velocity fully loaded with jet fuel with the fire that ensued.

"flimsiness" is not something I'd classify the WTC as. I haven't studied it in detail like Dr. Astaneh, but I believe his flimsiness comment was in relation to the Sears Tower.

Why was the Sears Tower not flimsy or as flimsy? Because it was designed for a purposeful airplane attack? No, not likely. It was probably "more sturdy" for a number of reasons including it being taller, it being in a high wind zone, and the decisions made by Fazlur Khan to overcome those design challenges. I doubt seriously that it was because he was trying to comply with some provision in the local building code. His decisions were obviously different than Robertson's, but that is likely highly dependent on the forces from wind testing, story heights, the architectural requirements of the exterior look of the building, and the nature of the building not being as slender since it's footprint grows at the lower stories. The buildings are different and of course economics played a role.

Tall buildings can make people sea sick if they are too flimsy. Tuned Mass Dampers lessen that effect. Would Le Messier's (SP) building withstand a jet impact? Is his building Too Flimsy? He corrected a construction flaw to his credit, but if those planes hit his high profile high rise, would he be considered "morally corrupt?"

If the WTC was built to the NY building code, would it have withstood the collision and fire without collapse? I don't know and I'm pretty sure no one knows that answer. What exact code deviation is the most significant factor in this "flimsy" categorization? Live Loads, Wind Loads, Drift???

-gm

PROF ASTANEH AND STRUCTURAL DISASTERS

With respect to WTC he had a point:

If the building were constructed according to the Code,

it would have a reserve of strength, or, in other words, would

not be so flimsy.

Of course, his criticism of the official investigators of the collapse was

too strongly worded. But, if he is right, then someone who knows it too,

but doesn't mention it in the report, is wrong, isn't he?

I am more of an analyst than a designer and my familiarity with codes is minimal.

But I am aware of at least one 'flimsiness' aspect, that was the most likely contributing

cause to WTC collapse.

Sometimes circumstances work in unexpected manner.

That's why we need a reserve of strength.

As for a public vs private criticism I agree, it would be more professional

to stick to the latter. But who would listen then?

Sincerely, Gregory from Oz

Wednesday, September 19, 2007

RE: Swimming pool concrete fill

Return Receipt

Your RE: Swimming pool concrete fill
document:

was Tarik Berair/TECHNIP
received
by:

at: 20/09/2007 08:30:55

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Re: Mac Arthur Maze Fire Collapse in "California Magazine"

I think what he meant was to respond with technical comments only.

The newspaper article was not very good and didn't give much of anything technical to respond with since not much was presented other than Dr. Astaneh's assessment that there are serious problems with the replacement of the span.

The Leher video was much more beneficial to watch. It gives him more time to explain himself and show the struggle he faced as crews rushed to clear the area while he wants to see the damage in its immediate condition. It's the old Mr. Spock philosophy "The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few, or the one". In this case, opening the road and fixing the bridge outweighed all. The fact that there is some residual damage in the columns (according to Dr. Astaneh) is something that should be looked into. Whether it will or not, only time and $ to pay for that will tell.

The article last week in the newspaper was also lacking in technical content to comment on. While I disagree with Dr. Astaneh's classification of "moral corruption" by either Mr. Robertson's firm, ASCE, or Federal Laws exempting certain structures from complying with state building codes, I think we all support his right to voice his opinion. I also took his comments in the context that he has spent five + years on the project. The current building code in california is the 2001 CBC. In January, the 2007 CBC goes into law. Neither has a requirement to design any building for terrorist attacks.

I think to most, the obvious "moral corruption" was the planning and actions of terrorists. I don't think the structural design of the World Trade Center, Sears Tower, or any 60's or 70's american skyscraper or building code had a provision stating "structure shall be capable of withstanding collision from a deliberate high speed kamikazi attack from a fully fueled jumbo jet".

I agree with Stan that if someone presents something on this list, it's more than fair to comment on any aspect one sees fit, publicly or privately.

-gm

On 9/19/07, Stan Caldwell <stancaldwell@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Professor:

Let me see if I understand your rules correctly. If someone wants to ask questions or make non-negative comments, they are free to do so publicly. However, if someone wants to criticize, they must do so privately.

How hypocritical, considering that you launched an irrational and irresponsible broadside at ASCE just eight days ago! Please understand that my comments herein are professional, not personal.

Regards,

Stan R. Caldwell, P.E.

Richardson, Texas

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On 9/18/07, Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl <astaneh@ce.berkeley.edu > wrote:

I welcome any and all of your professional comments and
questions, regarding any aspect of our MacArthur Maze research project
. You can post such professional items here, but, if you feel an urge to
make a personal comment you will need to send them to me at
Hassan@Astaneh.net without posting publicly.

--
-gm