Structural Engineering

Thursday, November 12, 2009

Research Project

Dear Avi: Looking at the courses you and your teammate have taken, there are many interesting topics that you can do. What I suggest is select a topic that affects public safety, environment and/or quality of life in your immediate community. That is the community that you live and work in. If you cannot find a problem in your immediate community, look into what affects safety, env. and/or quality of life in your city , state/province or country. I will be happy to advise you on this as your fellow Seaint member. Please feel free to send me an e-mail directly to astaneh@ce.berkeley.edu.

Best wishes

A. astaneh, Ph.D., P.E., Professor
University of California, Berkeley

Date: Thu 12 Nov 2009 00:47:00 +0530
> Subject: Research Project
> From: leisuresoul.avi@gmail.com
> To: seaint@seaint.org

> Hi all
> I am a student of 2nd year of Civil engineering me and
> one of my friend were thinking about make a Paper presentation in a
> National event of our college. Can anyone please suggest some really
> good topics as I have around 3 months so we can research on a
> particular topic as well quite well. Subjects which I have studied
> are-
> 1. Strength of materials
> 2. Geology
> 3. Geotech
> 4. Fluid mechanics
> 5. Fortran
>
> Thanks
> regards
>
> --
> Avi Sharma
> 2nd Year
> Department of Civil Engineering=2C
> SRKNEC=2C India

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Re: Research Project

That subject would be enough to make me go into Arts.
Gary

Harold Sprague wrote:

How about blast induced soil ground motion propagation?

Regards, Harold Sprague

> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:47:00 +0530
> Subject: Research Project
> From: leisuresoul.avi@gmail.com
> To: seaint@seaint.org
>
> Hi all,
> I am a student of 2nd year of Civil engineering, me and
> one of my friend were thinking about make a Paper presentation in a
> National event of our college. Can anyone please suggest some really
> good topics as I have around 3 months so we can research on a
> particular topic as well quite well. Subjects which I have studied
> are-
> 1. Strength of materials
> 2. Geology
> 3. Geotech
> 4. Fluid mechanics
> 5. Fortran
>
> Thanks
> regards
>
> --
> Avi Sharma
> 2nd Year
> Department of Civil Engineering,
> SRKNEC, India
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> * send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> * site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

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Wednesday, November 11, 2009

RE: Cracking in new PS concrete parking deck

Yes, I can see future problems developing already. Efflorescence indicates that the deck is leaking and moisture is getting into the cracks. This combined with the carbon dioxide in the air (parking deck) from automobile exhust fume will create carbonation of the concrete. This will reduce the durability of the concrete structure. If I am not mistaken, corrosion should follow soon.

Regards!

Francis Hsi, P.Eng., P.E.

From: smith1129@charter.net
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Cracking in new PS concrete parking deck
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:53:41 -0500

I was looking at a not yet opened new parking deck and noticed a great amount of cracking in the overhangs of the double tee prestressed members. These are not just surface crazing. From underneath, I can see cracks already exhibiting efflorescence. Cracking seems to always be on the overhang area rather than between the webs. Does anyone on the List have any experience with this situation? I did not design this deck but was wondering if I should approach the City about a possible problem.

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Re: Limitation of Liability Clauses -- Contracting through Architect

$50,000 or 5x/10xfee (whichever is greater) is a common limit for design work. I base this on past research in this area and on review with my insurance carrier. Everything is subject to debate in court, but its a starting point for negotiation. If the client wants a higher limit, then you have an excuse to charge more for the work.

Jim

From: Chuck Utzman <chuckutzman@gmail.com>
To: seaint@seaint.org
Sent: Thu, November 5, 2009 5:00:00 PM
Subject: Re: Limitation of Liability Clauses -- Contracting through Architect

I limit liability to the amount of my fee & require compensation for third party claims. IANAL but IMO neither would stand a court test, but the object is to discourage litigation.

.Michel Blangy wrote:
> My clause stipulates X amount of dollars or the engineer's total fee,
> whichever is lesser. What is the enforceability of this type of clause?
>
> Michel Blangy
>
>
>
>
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
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Re: Pedestrian Bridge

The requirements will depend on whose jurisdiiction the bridge is in. If it is only to support peds. and not at a school, it will likely be the city or the county and they may use the ICC or another Code depending on what part of the U.S. you are in. Pedestrian loading is likely to be 100 psf for LL.- a surcharge to account for children jumping as happened recently in South America.

If the ped. bridge is over a stream, it is necessary to provide anough clearance so that when the stream floods and debris comes down, it will not wash out. In addition there are wind forces and unbalanced loading to consider.

Stan Scholl, P.E.

Laguna Beach, CA

Re: Pedestrian Bridge

Salvador,

Look into AASHTO design specifications, including the Guide Specification for Design of Pedestrian Bridges; Caltrans BDS (available online); AISC Manual Chapter K for tubular member connections.

V. Steve Gordin, SE
Irvine CA

----- Original Message -----

From: Salvador Dorado

To: seaint@seaint.org

Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 14:21

Subject: Pedestrian Bridge

hi,

Can anyone give me information regarding the design requirements of a pedestrian bridge. The bridge will be spanning over a storm wash with a total legth of 130 ft and must have an 8'-0" wide platform. Where might I find restrictions/limitations that must be met? We are considering a steel truss to support all the dead and live loads. Thank you in advanced for all the help.

RE: EMT Properties

Szuchan, this publication is recommending EMT for bracing cloud ceilings
http://www.armstrong.com/common/c2002/content/files/56394.pdf

I have been using 250S162 studs for bracing ceilings or just for compression
posts when used with splayed wires. USG has has their Donn Compression post,
but I have never spec'd it.
http://www.usg.com/USG_Marketing_Content/usg.com/web_files/Documents/Install
ation_and_Appl_Guides/SC2497_Seismic_Technical_Guide_Compression_Posts.pdf

-----Original Message-----
From: Szuchuan Chang [mailto:szuchuan@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 12:22 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: EMT Properties

About a year ago, I designed some non-structural seismic ceiling support for
an auditorium. If you study the recommended details by the Armstrong or
City of Los Angeles, you will find the EMT are no longer recommended by
them. Ray Shreenan said that he is using it for tensions only which may be
alright. But ceiling braces takes both tension and compression forces.

I would agree with Jim Gataz, "Even if I knew the properties of the tubes,
from what I've seen of the connectors for EMT." The way the tube walls are
welded together and the difficulties of making that through bolt connection
works made me give up on the use of EMT. I also try to use the light weight
HSS tubes. Again, the connections are impossible to control.

If you have a workable connections, please share with us who have to design
the ceiling supports.

Thanks

Szuchan

On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Gerard Madden, SE<gmse4603@gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually, this is used all the time in ceilings
>
> -gm
>
> On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 5:59 PM, Bill Polhemus <bill@polhemus.cc> wrote:
>>
>> Sounds like a contractor has ton of the stuff and wants to use it in
>> lieu of stuff he'd have to buy.
>> When all you have is a hammer...
>>
>> William L. Polhemus, Jr. P.E.
>> Via iPhone 3G
>> On Jun 9, 2009, at 6:26 AM, Jim Getaz <jgetaz@shockeyprecast.com> wrote:
>>
>>         Ray,
>>                 Even if I knew the properties of the tubes, from what
>> I've seen of the connectors for EMT, I'm not sure I'd want to be
>> involved in using it structurally.
>>         Jim Getaz
>>
>

Pedestrian Bridge

hi,

Can anyone give me information regarding the design requirements of a pedestrian bridge. The bridge will be spanning over a storm wash with a total legth of 130 ft and must have an 8'-0" wide platform. Where might I find restrictions/limitations that must be met? We are considering a steel truss to support all the dead and live loads. Thank you in advanced for all the help.

RE: Research Project

If you want a projecct which is less technical but with world wide potential use in the Third World as well as in the U.S. and other more developed countries, you can test straw bale walls in shear (lateral loads from wind and EQ)- using cement plaster and also with mud/lime plaster.

see Straw Bale for info. or contact me. I have built some.

Stan Scholl

Laguna Beach, CA

RE: Research Project

How about blast induced soil ground motion propagation?

Regards, Harold Sprague

> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:47:00 +0530
> Subject: Research Project
> From: leisuresoul.avi@gmail.com
> To: seaint@seaint.org
>
> Hi all,
> I am a student of 2nd year of Civil engineering, me and
> one of my friend were thinking about make a Paper presentation in a
> National event of our college. Can anyone please suggest some really
> good topics as I have around 3 months so we can research on a
> particular topic as well quite well. Subjects which I have studied
> are-
> 1. Strength of materials
> 2. Geology
> 3. Geotech
> 4. Fluid mechanics
> 5. Fortran
>
> Thanks
> regards
>
> --
> Avi Sharma
> 2nd Year
> Department of Civil Engineering,
> SRKNEC, India
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> * send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> * site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

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RE: Caltrans Sharp S-curve on the Bay Bridge claims first life

Why would the Seismic Advisory Board have jurisdiction over non-seismic design issues, such as roadway layout?

David Dickey

Lexington, KY

From: Gerard Madden, SE [mailto:gmse4603@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 11:50 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Re: Caltrans Sharp S-curve on the Bay Bridge claims first life

With Respect,

but why should structural engineers be looking at acceptable speed limits, turning radius and traffic safety measures for this? I'm also not saying the design is doesn't have its flaws. But realistically speaking, this is probably the trickiest portion of the span replacement with a new bridge next to an old bridge and a tunnel all in the same area.

Unless this temporary segment of the bridge is structurally deficient, this sounds like the job for Traffic Engineers to figure out, not structural engineers. The SE designs the bridge to span the route specified by the traffic engineer. I'm sure they had to work closely since each decision of one impacts the other., but the Traffic Engineer should be the one to decide the pathway of the road.

I know what your response will be since likely the SE is the prime for this project...but that is another matter.

I have no professional experience with Caltrans and it's bureaucracy so I have no opinion other than what every other driver experiences on the road.

Anyway, I drove over this about 4 times in a month, I felt it was adequately signed but people were driving like it was any other stretch of road. It was awkward to drive for sure, but it's easily navigated at 35-40 mph.

-gm

-gm

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 7:24 AM, Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl <astaneh@ce.berkeley.edu> wrote:

Those of you who repeat what Caltrans says that these accidents, now a fatal one, are the fault of victims, please stay tuned until Monday, when I plan to release the results of our study of this S-curve and whether or not it is designed correctly which it is not. I have driven over that S-shape several times and first time I did, I almost got to hit the curb like this trucker did. I am a very careful driver such that my wife sometimes complains that why don't you go a bit faster! I was going 40 but this S-curve sneaks on you. Also, no one expects a very sharp S-curve in the middle of a straight bridge that they have driven over for years. There is no way that anyone can convince public that in a stretch of road only about 600 feet long, which this S-curve is , you had 47 accidents with one fatality and several injuries in only 55 days since its opening and it is all fault of drivers and engineers are innocent.

The root of this problem lies in complete corruption of Caltrans itself and its Seismic Advisory Board. After 1989 Earthquake , when Caltrans structures collapsed and killed 39 of the 60 or so fatalities of that earthquake, Governor of California established a Seismic Advisory Board to be independent of Caltrans and be above Caltrans acting as a watch dog to review and approve what Caltrans does. The Board was chaired by the late Professor Housner, who was truly the father of earthquake engineering along with the the Late Professor Newmark.
When he retired from the Seismic Advisory Board, the next chair and the current chair, and almost all members of the 5-member board started using their position to obtain multi-million dollar research and consulting contracts. Having been involved with bridge work in California and doing research and consulting for Caltrans in a legitimate manner, I have been to meetings that the Chair and members of this Seismic Advisory Board have presented their work to Caltrans , as I was doing my work at the same meeting, only to have
Caltrans present their own work to them at the meeting of Seismic Advisory Board for approval. As a result of this blatant violation of not only Professional Engineering canons, but, more importantly the trust that public has in engineers, the Seismic Advisory Board is turned now to an organ of public relations office of Caltrans . Quite often the Chair of Seismic Advisory Board and members come out and talk to reporters, presenting themselves as an independent watchdog as the charter of the SAB indicates and defend Caltrans yet they do not disclose that they have millions of contracts from Caltrans as a consultant or researcher or both to Caltrans.

Those of you who feel that no engineer should speak of ill about fellow engineers are unknowingly responsible for the death of innocent people who are killed in structures that are designed incorrectly not only due to incompetence, they might be understood, but because of this type of corruption in our profession. The killer S-curve, should have been reviewed and approved by the Seismic Advisory Board but of course it was not . The SAB is only a place that you get your payment from Caltrans and rubber stamp anything brought before you, otherwise, you will not get on the board and if you do by mistake, you will be fired.

If you are interested in knowing who are the members of the Seismic Advisory Board, please go to following link where there is official brochure of SAB. And if you want to know which member of the Board has received multi-million dollars grants from Caltrans just Google the names of the member + Caltrans. Just an example: Dr. Frieder Seible of UCSD, the current Chair of the Seismic Advisory Board has received millions of dollars to do testing at UCSD which includes his summer salary payment as well as for private consulting.

http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/esc/earthquake_engineering/SAB_Brochure_112107.pdf

Stay tuned and please do not be an accomplice to this corruption. Instead, let us cleanse our profession from unethical and illegal conduct of a very few corrupt engineers who are making our engineering profession to sink below any despised profession. Please do not blindly accept what engineers, especially Caltrans says with checking the facts.

Best regards.

******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
* Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
* * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
*
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*
* Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you * send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web * site at: http://www.seaint.org ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

Research Project

Hi all,
I am a student of 2nd year of Civil engineering, me and
one of my friend were thinking about make a Paper presentation in a
National event of our college. Can anyone please suggest some really
good topics as I have around 3 months so we can research on a
particular topic as well quite well. Subjects which I have studied
are-
1. Strength of materials
2. Geology
3. Geotech
4. Fluid mechanics
5. Fortran

Thanks
regards

--
Avi Sharma
2nd Year
Department of Civil Engineering,
SRKNEC, India

Re: Caltrans Sharp S-curve on the Bay Bridge claims first life

We are confused here, sandwitched betn two ppl who have gone through
experience itself. But Astaneh, I read that they are using multiple
speed instructions, as on sharpest turn, speed limit is 35mph, that
means you must have felt unfortable at 40mph at sharpest turn ? I
don't support multiple speed zones !

On 11/11/09, Gerard Madden, SE <gmse4603@gmail.com> wrote:
> With Respect,
>
> but why should structural engineers be looking at acceptable speed limits,
> turning radius and traffic safety measures for this? I'm also not saying the
> design is doesn't have its flaws. But realistically speaking, this is
> probably the trickiest portion of the span replacement with a new bridge
> next to an old bridge and a tunnel all in the same area.
>
> Unless this temporary segment of the bridge is structurally deficient, this
> sounds like the job for Traffic Engineers to figure out, not structural
> engineers. The SE designs the bridge to span the route specified by the
> traffic engineer. I'm sure they had to work closely since each decision of
> one impacts the other., but the Traffic Engineer should be the one to decide
> the pathway of the road.
>
> I know what your response will be since likely the SE is the prime for this
> project...but that is another matter.
>
> I have no professional experience with Caltrans and it's bureaucracy so I
> have no opinion other than what every other driver experiences on the road.
>
> Anyway, I drove over this about 4 times in a month, I felt it was adequately
> signed but people were driving like it was any other stretch of road. It was
> awkward to drive for sure, but it's easily navigated at 35-40 mph.
>
> -gm
>
>
>
> -gm
>
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 7:24 AM, Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl <
> astaneh@ce.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
>> Those of you who repeat what Caltrans says that these accidents, now a
>> fatal one, are the fault of victims, please stay tuned until Monday, when
>> I
>> plan to release the results of our study of this S-curve and whether or
>> not
>> it is designed correctly which it is not. I have driven over that S-shape
>> several times and first time I did, I almost got to hit the curb like this
>> trucker did. I am a very careful driver such that my wife sometimes
>> complains that why don't you go a bit faster! I was going 40 but this
>> S-curve sneaks on you. Also, no one expects a very sharp S-curve in the
>> middle of a straight bridge that they have driven over for years. There is
>> no way that anyone can convince public that in a stretch of road only
>> about
>> 600 feet long, which this S-curve is , you had 47 accidents with one
>> fatality and several injuries in only 55 days since its opening and it is
>> all fault of drivers and engineers are innocent.
>>
>> The root of this problem lies in complete corruption of Caltrans itself
>> and
>> its Seismic Advisory Board. After 1989 Earthquake , when Caltrans
>> structures
>> collapsed and killed 39 of the 60 or so fatalities of that earthquake,
>> Governor of California established a Seismic Advisory Board to be
>> independent of Caltrans and be above Caltrans acting as a watch dog to
>> review and approve what Caltrans does. The Board was chaired by the late
>> Professor Housner, who was truly the father of earthquake engineering
>> along
>> with the the Late Professor Newmark.
>> When he retired from the Seismic Advisory Board, the next chair and the
>> current chair, and almost all members of the 5-member board started using
>> their position to obtain multi-million dollar research and consulting
>> contracts. Having been involved with bridge work in California and doing
>> research and consulting for Caltrans in a legitimate manner, I have been
>> to
>> meetings that the Chair and members of this Seismic Advisory Board have
>> presented their work to Caltrans , as I was doing my work at the same
>> meeting, only to have
>> Caltrans present their own work to them at the meeting of Seismic Advisory
>> Board for approval. As a result of this blatant violation of not only
>> Professional Engineering canons, but, more importantly the trust that
>> public
>> has in engineers, the Seismic Advisory Board is turned now to an organ of
>> public relations office of Caltrans . Quite often the Chair of Seismic
>> Advisory Board and members come out and talk to reporters, presenting
>> themselves as an independent watchdog as the charter of the SAB indicates
>> and defend Caltrans yet they do not disclose that they have millions of
>> contracts from Caltrans as a consultant or researcher or both to Caltrans.
>>
>> Those of you who feel that no engineer should speak of ill about fellow
>> engineers are unknowingly responsible for the death of innocent people who
>> are killed in structures that are designed incorrectly not only due to
>> incompetence, they might be understood, but because of this type of
>> corruption in our profession. The killer S-curve, should have been
>> reviewed
>> and approved by the Seismic Advisory Board but of course it was not .
>> The
>> SAB is only a place that you get your payment from Caltrans and rubber
>> stamp anything brought before you, otherwise, you will not get on the
>> board
>> and if you do by mistake, you will be fired.
>>
>>
>> If you are interested in knowing who are the members of the Seismic
>> Advisory Board, please go to following link where there is official
>> brochure
>> of SAB. And if you want to know which member of the Board has received
>> multi-million dollars grants from Caltrans just Google the names of the
>> member + Caltrans. Just an example: Dr. Frieder Seible of UCSD, the
>> current
>> Chair of the Seismic Advisory Board has received millions of dollars to
>> do
>> testing at UCSD which includes his summer salary payment as well as for
>> private consulting.
>>
>> http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/esc/earthquake_engineering/SAB_Brochure_112107.pdf
>>
>> Stay tuned and please do not be an accomplice to this corruption. Instead,
>> let us cleanse our profession from unethical and illegal conduct of a very
>> few corrupt engineers who are making our engineering profession to sink
>> below any despised profession. Please do not blindly accept what
>> engineers,
>> especially Caltrans says with checking the facts.
>>
>>
>> Best regards.
>>
>>
>> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
>> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
>> * * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers * Association
>> of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To * subscribe (no fee) or
>> UnSubscribe, please go to:
>> *
>> * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
>> *
>> * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you * send to
>> the list is public domain and may be re-posted * without your
>> permission.
>> Make sure you visit our web * site at: http://www.seaint.org *******
>> ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
>>
>

--
Avi Sharma
2nd Year
Department of Civil Engineering,
SRKNEC, India

RE: Cracking in new PS concrete parking deck

Let the City know about it. You are a professional and have an implicit obligation as a professional.

Double tees are tensioned with straight strands. If it is cantilevered the strand should be harped.

Regards, Harold Sprague

From: smith1129@charter.net
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: Cracking in new PS concrete parking deck
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:53:41 -0500

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RE: slab flatness

You are correct. Flatness of a SOG is a service issue and is not a code issue. You can make it a specification issue by putting requirments in the project specification for flatness. Getting better flatness is not hard with today's laser screeds. I have proven to contractors that it is cheaper to rent a laser screed and cut down the number of workers on a slab placement. The bonus is a much flatter SOG and happier client.

Regards, Harold Sprague

> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:58:01 -0500
> From: akester@cfl.rr.com
> To: seaint@seaint.org
> Subject: slab flatness
>
> As far as I understand it, slab flatness is not a building code requirement. It depends on building and its intended purpose, and it specified by the architect or engineer according to what the owner wants. A floor supporting sensitive medical equipment is much different then a residential SOG. My code searches in Florida BUilding Code (basically the IBC) confirms this. ACI 117 had guidelines and recommendations, but these are up to the owner and design team to incorporate into the design specs or drawings.
>
> Anyone know anything that contradicts this?
>
> Therefore, the average residential SOG is screeded with a 2x4 and a level and little else, and if you did a floor slab survey you may indeed encounter differences throughout the slab of an inch or so? This is what I would anticipate. As long as the interior walls, flooring, cabinets and other finishes can be installed, and it is not noticable to the naked eye, this is acceptable...
>
> Thanks for your opinions,
> Andrew Kester, PE
> Florida
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> * send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> * site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

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Re: Caltrans Sharp S-curve on the Bay Bridge claims first life

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 7:24 AM, Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl <astaneh@ce.berkeley.edu> wrote:

Those of you who repeat what Caltrans says that these accidents, now a fatal one, are the fault of victims, please stay tuned until Monday, when I plan to release the results of our study of this S-curve and whether or not it is designed correctly which it is not. I have driven over that S-shape several times and first time I did, I almost got to hit the curb like this trucker did. I am a very careful driver such that my wife sometimes complains that why don't you go a bit faster! I was going 40 but this S-curve sneaks on you. Also, no one expects a very sharp S-curve in the middle of a straight bridge that they have driven over for years. There is no way that anyone can convince public that in a stretch of road only about 600 feet long, which this S-curve is , you had 47 accidents with one fatality and several injuries in only 55 days since its opening and it is all fault of drivers and engineers are innocent.

The root of this problem lies in complete corruption of Caltrans itself and its Seismic Advisory Board. After 1989 Earthquake , when Caltrans structures collapsed and killed 39 of the 60 or so fatalities of that earthquake, Governor of California established a Seismic Advisory Board to be independent of Caltrans and be above Caltrans acting as a watch dog to review and approve what Caltrans does. The Board was chaired by the late Professor Housner, who was truly the father of earthquake engineering along with the the Late Professor Newmark.
When he retired from the Seismic Advisory Board, the next chair and the current chair, and almost all members of the 5-member board started using their position to obtain multi-million dollar research and consulting contracts. Having been involved with bridge work in California and doing research and consulting for Caltrans in a legitimate manner, I have been to meetings that the Chair and members of this Seismic Advisory Board have presented their work to Caltrans , as I was doing my work at the same meeting, only to have
Caltrans present their own work to them at the meeting of Seismic Advisory Board for approval. As a result of this blatant violation of not only Professional Engineering canons, but, more importantly the trust that public has in engineers, the Seismic Advisory Board is turned now to an organ of public relations office of Caltrans . Quite often the Chair of Seismic Advisory Board and members come out and talk to reporters, presenting themselves as an independent watchdog as the charter of the SAB indicates and defend Caltrans yet they do not disclose that they have millions of contracts from Caltrans as a consultant or researcher or both to Caltrans.

Those of you who feel that no engineer should speak of ill about fellow engineers are unknowingly responsible for the death of innocent people who are killed in structures that are designed incorrectly not only due to incompetence, they might be understood, but because of this type of corruption in our profession. The killer S-curve, should have been reviewed and approved by the Seismic Advisory Board but of course it was not . The SAB is only a place that you get your payment from Caltrans and rubber stamp anything brought before you, otherwise, you will not get on the board and if you do by mistake, you will be fired.

If you are interested in knowing who are the members of the Seismic Advisory Board, please go to following link where there is official brochure of SAB. And if you want to know which member of the Board has received multi-million dollars grants from Caltrans just Google the names of the member + Caltrans. Just an example: Dr. Frieder Seible of UCSD, the current Chair of the Seismic Advisory Board has received millions of dollars to do testing at UCSD which includes his summer salary payment as well as for private consulting.

http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/esc/earthquake_engineering/SAB_Brochure_112107.pdf

Stay tuned and please do not be an accomplice to this corruption. Instead, let us cleanse our profession from unethical and illegal conduct of a very few corrupt engineers who are making our engineering profession to sink below any despised profession. Please do not blindly accept what engineers, especially Caltrans says with checking the facts.

Best regards.

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Caltrans Sharp S-curve on the Bay Bridge claims first life

The root of this problem lies in complete corruption of Caltrans itself
and its Seismic Advisory Board. After 1989 Earthquake , when Caltrans
structures collapsed and killed 39 of the 60 or so fatalities of that
earthquake, Governor of California established a Seismic Advisory Board
to be independent of Caltrans and be above Caltrans acting as a watch
dog to review and approve what Caltrans does. The Board was chaired by
the late Professor Housner, who was truly the father of earthquake
engineering along with the the Late Professor Newmark.
When he retired from the Seismic Advisory Board, the next chair and the
current chair, and almost all members of the 5-member board started
using their position to obtain multi-million dollar research and
consulting contracts. Having been involved with bridge work in
California and doing research and consulting for Caltrans in a
legitimate manner, I have been to meetings that the Chair and members of
this Seismic Advisory Board have presented their work to Caltrans , as I
was doing my work at the same meeting, only to have
Caltrans present their own work to them at the meeting of Seismic
Advisory Board for approval.
As a result of this blatant violation of not only Professional
Engineering canons, but, more importantly the trust that public has in
engineers, the Seismic Advisory Board is turned now to an organ of
public relations office of Caltrans . Quite often the Chair of Seismic
Advisory Board and members come out and talk to reporters, presenting
themselves as an independent watchdog as the charter of the SAB
indicates and defend Caltrans yet they do not disclose that they have
millions of contracts from Caltrans as a consultant or researcher or
both to Caltrans.

Those of you who feel that no engineer should speak of ill about fellow
engineers are unknowingly responsible for the death of innocent people
who are killed in structures that are designed incorrectly not only due
to incompetence, they might be understood, but because of this type of
corruption in our profession. The killer S-curve, should have been
reviewed and approved by the Seismic Advisory Board but of course it
was not . The SAB is only a place that you get your payment from
Caltrans and rubber stamp anything brought before you, otherwise, you
will not get on the board and if you do by mistake, you will be fired.

If you are interested in knowing who are the members of the Seismic
Advisory Board, please go to following link where there is official
brochure of SAB. And if you want to know which member of the Board has
received multi-million dollars grants from Caltrans just Google the
names of the member + Caltrans. Just an example: Dr. Frieder Seible of
UCSD, the current Chair of the Seismic Advisory Board has received
millions of dollars to do testing at UCSD which includes his summer
salary payment as well as for private consulting.

http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/esc/earthquake_engineering/SAB_Brochure_112107.pdf

Stay tuned and please do not be an accomplice to this corruption.
Instead, let us cleanse our profession from unethical and illegal
conduct of a very few corrupt engineers who are making our engineering
profession to sink below any despised profession. Please do not blindly
accept what engineers, especially Caltrans says with checking the facts.

Best regards.

slab flatness

As far as I understand it, slab flatness is not a building code requirement. It depends on building and its intended purpose, and it specified by the architect or engineer according to what the owner wants. A floor supporting sensitive medical equipment is much different then a residential SOG. My code searches in Florida BUilding Code (basically the IBC) confirms this. ACI 117 had guidelines and recommendations, but these are up to the owner and design team to incorporate into the design specs or drawings.

Anyone know anything that contradicts this?

Therefore, the average residential SOG is screeded with a 2x4 and a level and little else, and if you did a floor slab survey you may indeed encounter differences throughout the slab of an inch or so? This is what I would anticipate. As long as the interior walls, flooring, cabinets and other finishes can be installed, and it is not noticable to the naked eye, this is acceptable...

Thanks for your opinions,
Andrew Kester, PE
Florida

Cracking in new PS concrete parking deck

Tuesday, November 10, 2009

Re: Structural Studs Allowable Bending Moment

Check out section C3.1.2 Lateral Torsional Buckling Strength from the North American Cold-Formed Steel Specification. The following sections also discuss bracing with standing seam roofing and other similar methods.

Jim Wilson, PE

Stroudsburg, PA

From: "katy6827@cox.net" <katy6827@cox.net>
To: seaint@seaint.org
Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 7:16:04 PM
Subject: Structural Studs Allowable Bending Moment

All the information I have found on Structural (S) Stud Sections in regards to the Allowable Bending Moment has stated that the tabulated values are for continuously supported members. I am looking for information on the bending moment strength of members when they are not continuously supported. Has anyone seen this information or know where I can aquire it?

Thanks,
Katy

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RE: Structural Studs Allowable Bending Moment

Katy,

I hazard will have to do the calculations to the cold formed specification
AISI in US, or AS4600 in Australia.

However, basically just need to account for the differences in moment
distribution, that is calculate Cb (I think both codes use same variable)

Noting that for a double span beam, the maximum bending moment (wL^2/8) is
the same as for a single span beam just in different locations. Whilst a
single span beam may be considered to have one entire flange restrained by a
floor slab, that is not the case for a double span beam (eg. 1/4 of span,
compression flange not directly attached to floor slab). Also for a
uniformly distributed load (UDL), half the span of a double span beam is
similar to a propped cantilever. (double spans typically used as a simple
basis for continuous span tables)

Using such I believe it should be possible to transform the known phi.Mb
into the desired phi.Mb, or UDL load capacity.

Regards
Conrad Harrison
B.Tech (mfg & mech), MIIE, gradTIEAust
mailto:sch.tectonic@bigpond.com
Adelaide
South Australia

Structural Studs Allowable Bending Moment

All the information I have found on Structural (S) Stud Sections in regards to the Allowable Bending Moment has stated that the tabulated values are for continuously supported members. I am looking for information on the bending moment strength of members when they are not continuously supported. Has anyone seen this information or know where I can aquire it?

Thanks,
Katy

Re: Caltrans Sharp S-curve on the Bay Bridge claims first life

well, i set the coffee mug down before the smartphone gets to textin'...

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 1:55 PM, <Jnapd@aol.com> wrote:

I can see 2 out of 3 but texting .......like playing with a revolver with 1 bullet in the chamber till.........gotya and whomever else might be around.

Joe Venuti
Johnson & Nielsen Associates
Palm Springs, CA

In a message dated 11/10/2009 1:04:57 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, d.topete73@gmail.com writes:

The 44 incidents on the S-curve are not because of the curve... the curve is in place to maintain the bridge in operation until the new eastern span is in service in another few years... Caltrans won't create a new, temporary tunnel through Yerba Buena Island to eliminate the S-curve.

As Ralph eluded to, the problem is the idiot drivers who text, speed, sip from their coffee tumblers, etc. (I am guilty of all 3 whenever I cross the span...)

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 11:45 AM, <Jnapd@aol.com> wrote:

Ralph

I agree with what you have said...........the questions is 44 accidents at the curve since 9-5-09

banked roadway at curve we have probably helped most of those accidents. Why is now time to thing about better warning systems...............Cal Trans has to answer to nobody but themselves.

In a message dated 11/10/2009 11:32:41 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, Rhkratzse@aol.com writes:

Look, there's no way we, or Cal Trans, can protect everyone from him/herself. There's always going to be that 1% -- or more accurately.00001% -- who either 1) don't care about their own life, much less anyone else's, or 2) are in such a hurry that they don't recognize what they're doing (often called "get-home-itis"), or 3) are half, or fully, asleep, or 4) feel they know better than CalTrans what speed *they* can handle in any given situation, or ... well, fill in your own rationalization.

Society can never reduce its flaws to "zero," no matter how hard it tries. OTOH there are about
37,000 deaths a year on US highways -- more than 100 a day! And that's the lowest since 1961! But we go into a tailspin if a couple of people a year jump off the Golden Gate Bridge, or if a person a week jumps in front of a CalTrain, or if a person a night is murdered in my hometown. We obviously don't *really* care to reduce the incredible carnage on our highways. Many of us don't bother to wear our seat belts (although we "belt-an-suspenders" engineers surely do, don't we?). Few of us use our turn signals religiously to alert others to our intentions.   We have collectively decided that our individual convenience is more important than the 37,000 deaths/year. Besides, "I haven't been killed yet." ;)

Sure, add reflectors; add big, bright, flashing "slow down!" signs; paint wider lane-dividing stripes; reduce the speed limit from 40 to 30 (but everyone familiar with the S-curve knows that it's still "safe" at 40, no matter what CalTrans says); add rumble strips -- just don't expect any of this to slow down the half-asleep driver or the meth-fueled truck driver (not referring to anyone in particular) or the "cowboy" driver who wants to test his skill without going to Le Mans!

Whew! Vent over, back to work.   ;)

Ralph Hueston Kratz
Richmond CA USA

In a message dated 11/10/09 11:01:25 AM, ECVAl3@aol.com writes:

I agree. It doesn't look like the curve is banked at all so the speed limit should be 30 mph to keep the traffic at 40 mph. What would have happened if the truck was driving in the inside lanes?
s.macie

In a message dated 11/9/2009 9:26:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, leisuresoul.avi@gmail.com writes:

Its gross mistake of speed loving people, but What i feel is that if
its adviced to follow 40km/hr then also engineer should take a margin
of 10km/hr, to save those who love to break and bend rules !

On 11/10/09, Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl <astaneh@ce.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
>   Driver killed after driving off Bay Bridge
>
>
>    By: Tamara Barak Aparton
>    <http://www.sfexaminer.com/bios/41456232.html>
>    Examiner Staff Writer
>    November 9, 2009
>
>
>
> SAN FRANCISCO — A truck driver was killed this morning after losing
> control of his vehicle and plummeting over the side of the San
> Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge, according to the California Highway Patrol.
>
>
> Read more:
> http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Driver-killed-after-driving-off-Bay-Bridge-69559822.html
>
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
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> *   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
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>

--
Avi Sharma
2nd Year
Department of Civil Engineering,
SRKNEC, India

******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
*   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
*
*   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
*   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
*   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
*
*   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
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*   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
*   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
*   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
*   site at: http://www.seaint.org
******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

--
David Topete, SE

--
David Topete, SE

Re: Caltrans Sharp S-curve on the Bay Bridge claims first life

I can see 2 out of 3 but texting .......like playing with a revolver with 1 bullet in the chamber till.........gotya and whomever else might be around.

Joe Venuti
Johnson & Nielsen Associates
Palm Springs, CA

In a message dated 11/10/2009 1:04:57 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, d.topete73@gmail.com writes:

The 44 incidents on the S-curve are not because of the curve... the curve is in place to maintain the bridge in operation until the new eastern span is in service in another few years... Caltrans won't create a new, temporary tunnel through Yerba Buena Island to eliminate the S-curve.

As Ralph eluded to, the problem is the idiot drivers who text, speed, sip from their coffee tumblers, etc. (I am guilty of all 3 whenever I cross the span...)

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 11:45 AM, <Jnapd@aol.com> wrote:

Ralph

I agree with what you have said...........the questions is 44 accidents at the curve since 9-5-09

banked roadway at curve we have probably helped most of those accidents. Why is now time to thing about better warning systems...............Cal Trans has to answer to nobody but themselves.

In a message dated 11/10/2009 11:32:41 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, Rhkratzse@aol.com writes:

Look, there's no way we, or Cal Trans, can protect everyone from him/herself. There's always going to be that 1% -- or more accurately.00001% -- who either 1) don't care about their own life, much less anyone else's, or 2) are in such a hurry that they don't recognize what they're doing (often called "get-home-itis"), or 3) are half, or fully, asleep, or 4) feel they know better than CalTrans what speed *they* can handle in any given situation, or ... well, fill in your own rationalization.

Society can never reduce its flaws to "zero," no matter how hard it tries. OTOH there are about
37,000 deaths a year on US highways -- more than 100 a day! And that's the lowest since 1961! But we go into a tailspin if a couple of people a year jump off the Golden Gate Bridge, or if a person a week jumps in front of a CalTrain, or if a person a night is murdered in my hometown. We obviously don't *really* care to reduce the incredible carnage on our highways. Many of us don't bother to wear our seat belts (although we "belt-an-suspenders" engineers surely do, don't we?). Few of us use our turn signals religiously to alert others to our intentions.   We have collectively decided that our individual convenience is more important than the 37,000 deaths/year. Besides, "I haven't been killed yet." ;)

Sure, add reflectors; add big, bright, flashing "slow down!" signs; paint wider lane-dividing stripes; reduce the speed limit from 40 to 30 (but everyone familiar with the S-curve knows that it's still "safe" at 40, no matter what CalTrans says); add rumble strips -- just don't expect any of this to slow down the half-asleep driver or the meth-fueled truck driver (not referring to anyone in particular) or the "cowboy" driver who wants to test his skill without going to Le Mans!

Whew! Vent over, back to work.   ;)

Ralph Hueston Kratz
Richmond CA USA

In a message dated 11/10/09 11:01:25 AM, ECVAl3@aol.com writes:

I agree. It doesn't look like the curve is banked at all so the speed limit should be 30 mph to keep the traffic at 40 mph. What would have happened if the truck was driving in the inside lanes?
s.macie

In a message dated 11/9/2009 9:26:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, leisuresoul.avi@gmail.com writes:

Its gross mistake of speed loving people, but What i feel is that if
its adviced to follow 40km/hr then also engineer should take a margin
of 10km/hr, to save those who love to break and bend rules !

On 11/10/09, Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl <astaneh@ce.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
>   Driver killed after driving off Bay Bridge
>
>
>    By: Tamara Barak Aparton
>    <http://www.sfexaminer.com/bios/41456232.html>
>    Examiner Staff Writer
>    November 9, 2009
>
>
>
> SAN FRANCISCO — A truck driver was killed this morning after losing
> control of his vehicle and plummeting over the side of the San
> Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge, according to the California Highway Patrol.
>
>
> Read more:
> http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Driver-killed-after-driving-off-Bay-Bridge-69559822.html
>
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> *   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> *   site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
>

--
Avi Sharma
2nd Year
Department of Civil Engineering,
SRKNEC, India

******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
*   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
*
*   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
*   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
*   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
*
*   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
*
*   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
*   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
*   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
*   site at: http://www.seaint.org
******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

--
David Topete, SE

Re: Caltrans Sharp S-curve on the Bay Bridge claims first life

The 44 incidents on the S-curve are not because of the curve... the curve is in place to maintain the bridge in operation until the new eastern span is in service in another few years... Caltrans won't create a new, temporary tunnel through Yerba Buena Island to eliminate the S-curve.

As Ralph eluded to, the problem is the idiot drivers who text, speed, sip from their coffee tumblers, etc. (I am guilty of all 3 whenever I cross the span...)

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 11:45 AM, <Jnapd@aol.com> wrote:

Ralph

I agree with what you have said...........the questions is 44 accidents at the curve since 9-5-09

banked roadway at curve we have probably helped most of those accidents. Why is now time to thing about better warning systems...............Cal Trans has to answer to nobody but themselves.

In a message dated 11/10/2009 11:32:41 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, Rhkratzse@aol.com writes:

Look, there's no way we, or Cal Trans, can protect everyone from him/herself. There's always going to be that 1% -- or more accurately.00001% -- who either 1) don't care about their own life, much less anyone else's, or 2) are in such a hurry that they don't recognize what they're doing (often called "get-home-itis"), or 3) are half, or fully, asleep, or 4) feel they know better than CalTrans what speed *they* can handle in any given situation, or ... well, fill in your own rationalization.

Society can never reduce its flaws to "zero," no matter how hard it tries. OTOH there are about
37,000 deaths a year on US highways -- more than 100 a day! And that's the lowest since 1961! But we go into a tailspin if a couple of people a year jump off the Golden Gate Bridge, or if a person a week jumps in front of a CalTrain, or if a person a night is murdered in my hometown. We obviously don't *really* care to reduce the incredible carnage on our highways. Many of us don't bother to wear our seat belts (although we "belt-an-suspenders" engineers surely do, don't we?). Few of us use our turn signals religiously to alert others to our intentions.   We have collectively decided that our individual convenience is more important than the 37,000 deaths/year. Besides, "I haven't been killed yet." ;)

Sure, add reflectors; add big, bright, flashing "slow down!" signs; paint wider lane-dividing stripes; reduce the speed limit from 40 to 30 (but everyone familiar with the S-curve knows that it's still "safe" at 40, no matter what CalTrans says); add rumble strips -- just don't expect any of this to slow down the half-asleep driver or the meth-fueled truck driver (not referring to anyone in particular) or the "cowboy" driver who wants to test his skill without going to Le Mans!

Whew! Vent over, back to work.   ;)

Ralph Hueston Kratz
Richmond CA USA

In a message dated 11/10/09 11:01:25 AM, ECVAl3@aol.com writes:

I agree. It doesn't look like the curve is banked at all so the speed limit should be 30 mph to keep the traffic at 40 mph. What would have happened if the truck was driving in the inside lanes?
s.macie

In a message dated 11/9/2009 9:26:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, leisuresoul.avi@gmail.com writes:

Its gross mistake of speed loving people, but What i feel is that if
its adviced to follow 40km/hr then also engineer should take a margin
of 10km/hr, to save those who love to break and bend rules !

On 11/10/09, Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl <astaneh@ce.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
>   Driver killed after driving off Bay Bridge
>
>
>    By: Tamara Barak Aparton
>    <http://www.sfexaminer.com/bios/41456232.html>
>    Examiner Staff Writer
>    November 9, 2009
>
>
>
> SAN FRANCISCO — A truck driver was killed this morning after losing
> control of his vehicle and plummeting over the side of the San
> Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge, according to the California Highway Patrol.
>
>
> Read more:
> http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Driver-killed-after-driving-off-Bay-Bridge-69559822.html
>
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> *   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> *   site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
>

--
Avi Sharma
2nd Year
Department of Civil Engineering,
SRKNEC, India

******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
*   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
*
*   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
*   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
*   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
*
*   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
*
*   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
*   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
*   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
*   site at: http://www.seaint.org
******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

--
David Topete, SE

Re: Caltrans Sharp S-curve on the Bay Bridge claims first life

Ralph

I agree with what you have said...........the questions is 44 accidents at the curve since 9-5-09

banked roadway at curve we have probably helped most of those accidents. Why is now time to thing about better warning systems...............Cal Trans has to answer to nobody but themselves.

In a message dated 11/10/2009 11:32:41 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, Rhkratzse@aol.com writes:

Look, there's no way we, or Cal Trans, can protect everyone from him/herself. There's always going to be that 1% -- or more accurately.00001% -- who either 1) don't care about their own life, much less anyone else's, or 2) are in such a hurry that they don't recognize what they're doing (often called "get-home-itis"), or 3) are half, or fully, asleep, or 4) feel they know better than CalTrans what speed *they* can handle in any given situation, or ... well, fill in your own rationalization.

Society can never reduce its flaws to "zero," no matter how hard it tries. OTOH there are about 37,000 deaths a year on US highways -- more than 100 a day! And that's the lowest since 1961! But we go into a tailspin if a couple of people a year jump off the Golden Gate Bridge, or if a person a week jumps in front of a CalTrain, or if a person a night is murdered in my hometown. We obviously don't *really* care to reduce the incredible carnage on our highways. Many of us don't bother to wear our seat belts (although we "belt-an-suspenders" engineers surely do, don't we?). Few of us use our turn signals religiously to alert others to our intentions.   We have collectively decided that our individual convenience is more important than the 37,000 deaths/year. Besides, "I haven't been killed yet." ;)

Sure, add reflectors; add big, bright, flashing "slow down!" signs; paint wider lane-dividing stripes; reduce the speed limit from 40 to 30 (but everyone familiar with the S-curve knows that it's still "safe" at 40, no matter what CalTrans says); add rumble strips -- just don't expect any of this to slow down the half-asleep driver or the meth-fueled truck driver (not referring to anyone in particular) or the "cowboy" driver who wants to test his skill without going to Le Mans!

Whew! Vent over, back to work.   ;)

Ralph Hueston Kratz
Richmond CA USA

In a message dated 11/10/09 11:01:25 AM, ECVAl3@aol.com writes:

I agree. It doesn't look like the curve is banked at all so the speed limit should be 30 mph to keep the traffic at 40 mph. What would have happened if the truck was driving in the inside lanes?
s.macie

In a message dated 11/9/2009 9:26:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, leisuresoul.avi@gmail.com writes:

Its gross mistake of speed loving people, but What i feel is that if
its adviced to follow 40km/hr then also engineer should take a margin
of 10km/hr, to save those who love to break and bend rules !

On 11/10/09, Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl <astaneh@ce.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
>   Driver killed after driving off Bay Bridge
>
>
>    By: Tamara Barak Aparton
>    <http://www.sfexaminer.com/bios/41456232.html>
>    Examiner Staff Writer
>    November 9, 2009
>
>
>
> SAN FRANCISCO — A truck driver was killed this morning after losing
> control of his vehicle and plummeting over the side of the San
> Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge, according to the California Highway Patrol.
>
>
> Read more:
> http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Driver-killed-after-driving-off-Bay-Bridge-69559822.html
>
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
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> *   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
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> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
>

--
Avi Sharma
2nd Year
Department of Civil Engineering,
SRKNEC, India

******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
*   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
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Re: Caltrans Sharp S-curve on the Bay Bridge claims first life

I would also like to add that we should avoid multiple speed zone,
like in this case we have 3 speed zone. 1- Before S curve,50mph. 2- In
S curve, 40mph. 3- Sharp S curve, 35 mph. Its difficult to follow and
half & full asleep man nt gonna see it, so better we avoid it. We CE
have toughest job, we need to make a bridge and then add instruction
fr civilian as a 'civilian' !

On 11/10/09, Rhkratzse@aol.com <Rhkratzse@aol.com> wrote:
> Look, there's no way we, or CalTrans, can protect everyone from
> him/herself. There's always going to be that 1% -- or more
> accurately.00001% -- who
> either 1) don't care about their own life, much less anyone else's, or 2)
> are
> in such a hurry that they don't recognize what they're doing (often called
> "get-home-itis"), or 3) are half, or fully, asleep, or 4) feel they know
> better than CalTrans what speed *they* can handle in any given situation, or
> ... well, fill in your own rationalization.
>
> Society can never reduce its flaws to "zero," no matter how hard it tries.
> OTOH there are about 37,000 deaths a year on US highways -- more than 100
> a day! And that's the lowest since 1961! But we go into a tailspin if a
> couple of people a year jump off the Golden Gate Bridge, or if a person a
> week jumps in front of a CalTrain, or if a person a night is murdered in my
> hometown. We obviously don't *really* care to reduce the incredible
> carnage
> on our highways. Many of us don't bother to wear our seat belts (although
> we "belt-an-suspenders" engineers surely do, don't we?). Few of us use our
> turn signals religiously to alert others to our intentions. We have
> collectively decided that our individual convenience is more important than
> the
> 37,000 deaths/year. Besides, "I haven't been killed yet." ;)
>
> Sure, add reflectors; add big, bright, flashing "slow down!" signs; paint
> wider lane-dividing stripes; reduce the speed limit from 40 to 30 (but
> everyone familiar with the S-curve knows that it's still "safe" at 40, no
> matter
> what CalTrans says); add rumble strips -- just don't expect any of this to
> slow down the half-asleep driver or the meth-fueled truck driver (not
> referring to anyone in particular) or the "cowboy" driver who wants to test
> his
> skill without going to Le Mans!
>
> Whew! Vent over, back to work. ;)
>
> Ralph Hueston Kratz
> Richmond CA USA
>
> In a message dated 11/10/09 11:01:25 AM, ECVAl3@aol.com writes:
>> I agree. It doesn't look like the curve is banked at all so the speed
>> limit should be 30 mph to keep the traffic at 40 mph. What would have
>> happened
>> if the truck was driving in the inside lanes?
>> s.macie
>>
>> In a message dated 11/9/2009 9:26:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>> leisuresoul.avi@gmail.com writes:
>>
>> Its gross mistake of speed loving people, but What i feel is that if
>> its adviced to follow 40km/hr then also engineer should take a margin
>> of 10km/hr, to save those who love to break and bend rules !
>>
>> On 11/10/09, Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl <astaneh@ce.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> >   Driver killed after driving off Bay Bridge
>> >
>> >
>> >    By: Tamara Barak Aparton
>> >    <http://www.sfexaminer.com/bios/41456232.html>
>> >    Examiner Staff Writer
>> >    November 9, 2009
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > SAN FRANCISCO — A truck driver was killed this morning after losing
>> > control of his vehicle and plummeting over the side of the San
>> > Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge, according to the California Highway
>> Patrol.
>> >
>> >
>> > Read more:
>> >
>> http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Driver-killed-after-driving-off-Bay-Bridge-69559822.html
>> >
>> >
>> > ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
>> > *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
>> > *
>> > *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
>> > *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
>> > *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
>> > *
>> > *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
>> > *
>> > *   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
>> > *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
>> > *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
>> > *   site at: http://www.seaint.org
>> > ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Avi Sharma
>> 2nd Year
>> Department of Civil Engineering,
>> SRKNEC, India
>>
>> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
>> *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
>> *
>> *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
>> *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
>> *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
>> *
>> *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
>> *
>> *   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
>> *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
>> *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
>> *   site at: http://www.seaint.org
>> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
>>

--
Avi Sharma
2nd Year
Department of Civil Engineering,
SRKNEC, India

Re: Caltrans Sharp S-curve on the Bay Bridge claims first life

Look, there's no way we, or CalTrans, can protect everyone from him/herself. There's always going to be that 1% -- or more accurately.00001% -- who either 1) don't care about their own life, much less anyone else's, or 2) are in such a hurry that they don't recognize what they're doing (often called "get-home-itis"), or 3) are half, or fully, asleep, or 4) feel they know better than CalTrans what speed *they* can handle in any given situation, or ... well, fill in your own rationalization.

Society can never reduce its flaws to "zero," no matter how hard it tries. OTOH there are about 37,000 deaths a year on US highways -- more than 100 a day! And that's the lowest since 1961! But we go into a tailspin if a couple of people a year jump off the Golden Gate Bridge, or if a person a week jumps in front of a CalTrain, or if a person a night is murdered in my hometown. We obviously don't *really* care to reduce the incredible carnage on our highways. Many of us don't bother to wear our seat belts (although we "belt-an-suspenders" engineers surely do, don't we?). Few of us use our turn signals religiously to alert others to our intentions. We have collectively decided that our individual convenience is more important than the 37,000 deaths/year. Besides, "I haven't been killed yet." ;)

Sure, add reflectors; add big, bright, flashing "slow down!" signs; paint wider lane-dividing stripes; reduce the speed limit from 40 to 30 (but everyone familiar with the S-curve knows that it's still "safe" at 40, no matter what CalTrans says); add rumble strips -- just don't expect any of this to slow down the half-asleep driver or the meth-fueled truck driver (not referring to anyone in particular) or the "cowboy" driver who wants to test his skill without going to Le Mans!

Whew! Vent over, back to work. ;)

Ralph Hueston Kratz
Richmond CA USA

In a message dated 11/10/09 11:01:25 AM, ECVAl3@aol.com writes:

I agree. It doesn't look like the curve is banked at all so the speed limit should be 30 mph to keep the traffic at 40 mph. What would have happened if the truck was driving in the inside lanes?
s.macie

In a message dated 11/9/2009 9:26:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, leisuresoul.avi@gmail.com writes:

Its gross mistake of speed loving people, but What i feel is that if
its adviced to follow 40km/hr then also engineer should take a margin
of 10km/hr, to save those who love to break and bend rules !

On 11/10/09, Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl <astaneh@ce.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
>   Driver killed after driving off Bay Bridge
>
>
>    By: Tamara Barak Aparton
>    <http://www.sfexaminer.com/bios/41456232.html>
>    Examiner Staff Writer
>    November 9, 2009
>
>
>
> SAN FRANCISCO — A truck driver was killed this morning after losing
> control of his vehicle and plummeting over the side of the San
> Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge, according to the California Highway Patrol.
>
>
> Read more:
> http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Driver-killed-after-driving-off-Bay-Bridge-69559822.html
>
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> *   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> *   site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
>

--
Avi Sharma
2nd Year
Department of Civil Engineering,
SRKNEC, India

******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
*   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
*
*   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
*   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
*   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
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*   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
*   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
*   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
*   site at: http://www.seaint.org
******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

Re: Caltrans Sharp S-curve on the Bay Bridge claims first life

I agree. It doesn't look like the curve is banked at all so the speed limit should be 30 mph to keep the traffic at 40 mph. What would have happened if the truck was driving in the inside lanes?

s.macie

In a message dated 11/9/2009 9:26:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, leisuresoul.avi@gmail.com writes:

Its gross mistake of speed loving people, but What i feel is that if
its adviced to follow 40km/hr then also engineer should take a margin
of 10km/hr, to save those who love to break and bend rules !

On 11/10/09, Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl <astaneh@ce.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
>   Driver killed after driving off Bay Bridge
>
>
>    By: Tamara Barak Aparton
>    <http://www.sfexaminer.com/bios/41456232.html>
>    Examiner Staff Writer
>    November 9, 2009
>
>
>
> SAN FRANCISCO — A truck driver was killed this morning after losing
> control of his vehicle and plummeting over the side of the San
> Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge, according to the California Highway Patrol.
>
>
> Read more:
> http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Driver-killed-after-driving-off-Bay-Bridge-69559822.html
>
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> *   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> *   site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
>

--
Avi Sharma
2nd Year
Department of Civil Engineering,
SRKNEC, India

******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
*   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
*
*   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
*   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
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*   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
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Re: Old steel beams called out

S20x80, top of steel 2" below nominal

etc.

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:47 PM, ken ng <zy7up@yahoo.com> wrote:

I am looking at an old set floor plan and sections. The steel beams were called out as follow:

20" I 80# - 2"

20" I 65# - 2"

24" I 80# - 2"

Does anyone know what are these called out mean? I knew that we do have an 24" depth steel beam, but we don't have wife flange that is 20" depth.

--
Tripp Howard

Old steel beams called out

I am looking at an old set floor plan and sections. The steel beams were called out as follow:

20" I 80# - 2"

20" I 65# - 2"

24" I 80# - 2"

Does anyone know what are these called out mean? I knew that we do have an 24" depth steel beam, but we don't have wife flange that is 20" depth.

MOE

Does anyone know of an example of obtaining the MOE of a plywood shear wall? I am looking at taking the rigidity and back calculating, but I am not seeing results that would make sense? If someone has an example or some tips I would be greatful.

Jason

Monday, November 9, 2009

Re: Caltrans Sharp S-curve on the Bay Bridge claims first life

Its gross mistake of speed loving people, but What i feel is that if
its adviced to follow 40km/hr then also engineer should take a margin
of 10km/hr, to save those who love to break and bend rules !

On 11/10/09, Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl <astaneh@ce.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
> Driver killed after driving off Bay Bridge
>
>
> By: Tamara Barak Aparton
> <http://www.sfexaminer.com/bios/41456232.html>
> Examiner Staff Writer
> November 9, 2009
>
>
>
> SAN FRANCISCO — A truck driver was killed this morning after losing
> control of his vehicle and plummeting over the side of the San
> Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge, according to the California Highway Patrol.
>
>
> Read more:
> http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Driver-killed-after-driving-off-Bay-Bridge-69559822.html
>
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> * send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> * site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
>

--
Avi Sharma
2nd Year
Department of Civil Engineering,
SRKNEC, India

Re: base plate design

Harold,
Thanks. I'm looking for structural failures that were initiated at the base.
Overloaded tank sounds like a control or process failure and sure would have
been fun to watch from a distance. :)

The list has discussed hooked anchors pulling out of the concrete but ...
just discussions, no real forensic, analytical review information. I have
done remedial work on bases, usually because of something that occurred
after the design office. I have seen engineered details that I would
consider questionable but have no evidence that they are not sufficient
design. I have seen structural collapses which rotated the foundation out of
the ground on the end of a "pinned-base" column ... but not a wrinkle, crack
or stretch mark at the steel/concrete interface.

There are things that I know should occur for various types of base failure,
but I have never seen any in practice that could be attributed to design -
even multi-axial loading conditions.

The only thing that I have encountered (all too regularly), that I consider
a base failure, is cracked grout which is usually an engineered detail
failure. Apparently, nothing else seems to matter - or we just haven't
stretched that envelope far enough, yet.

Regards
Paul
--
Paul Ransom, P.Eng.
ph 905 639-9628
fax 905 639-3866
ad026@hwcn.org

> From: Harold Sprague <spraguehope@hotmail.com>

> Yes. I have known of several failures for tank anchor rods. The anchor rods
> stretch a long way. This most commonly occurs when tanks are overpressurized.
>
> Regards Harold Sprague

>> I'll repeat a question that I asked a while back: Has anybody ever known a
>> structure failure due to base (steel/concrete) or anchor failure in the
>> finished state (not during construction)? I have heard anecdotal stories but
>> nothing confirmed as engineering failure vs overload material or
>> construction failures.

>> Paul Ransom=2C P.Eng.
>>

Caltrans Sharp S-curve on the Bay Bridge claims first life

Driver killed after driving off Bay Bridge

By: Tamara Barak Aparton
<http://www.sfexaminer.com/bios/41456232.html>
Examiner Staff Writer
November 9, 2009

SAN FRANCISCO — A truck driver was killed this morning after losing
control of his vehicle and plummeting over the side of the San
Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge, according to the California Highway Patrol.

RE: base plate design

Tanks can be overpressurized in more than a few ways.
A tank can be overpresurized with air for testing purposes.
LNG tanks need to have a minimum liquid level to avoid overpressurization also. Inadequate or blocked venting is another cause.
LNG tanks can also exhibit "rapid phase transition".
Fueling of tanks with inadequate venting can also be a source of overpressure.
Flashing of vapors can overpressurize a tank.

Tanks do what a tank would do and tried to take on a spherical shape as opposed to the original cylindrical shape. Whatever the source of the overpressure, the perimeter of the tank is anchored by the anchor rods and as the pressure increased the anchor rods fail in tension.

Regards, Harold Sprague

From: Jnapd@aol.com
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 13:06:49 -0500
Subject: Re: base plate design
To: seaint@seaint.org

Harold

Do you mean the tanks were filled beyond the designed capacity for the anchors?

Joe Venuti
Johnson & Nielsen Associates
Palm Springs, CA

In a message dated 11/9/2009 9:41:21 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, prajendran@ymail.com writes:

Harold,

How does tank pressure cause anchor bolt stretching?

Rajendran

--- On Sun, 11/8/09, Harold Sprague <spraguehope@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Harold Sprague <spraguehope@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: base plate design
To: seaint@seaint.org
Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 7:35 PM

Yes. I have known of several failures for tank anchor rods. The anchor rods stretch a long way. This most commonly occurs when tanks are overpressurized.

Regards, Harold Sprague

> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 11:07:01 -0500
> Subject: Re: base plate design
> From: ad026@hwcn.org
> To: seaint@seaint.org
>
> Highly neglected topic. No good single reference. The problem is the huge
> range of possibilities that can occur in: member section (shape and aspect
> ratios); load effects at the theoretical section end; local effects in the
> column, plate, rods, grout, concrete, welds; geometry of rod pattern; base
> shear (a topic in itself); elastic/plastic transition; flexible/rigid;
> assumptions...
>
> There was an interesting presentation at NASCC '09 in Phoenix, Better Base
> Plate Designs. I'll follow up if I can remember the researchers involved. I
> had a chat with them before I attended because I didn't want to waste my
> time. They reinforced the need for rigorous analysis. I believe that the
> work was supported by RISA Technologies for RISABase.
>
> I probably spend as much time with base plates as with the most complex
> connections in a structure. Lots of iteration and no single controlling
> case. I like to bracket my solutions to determine how much time to spend. If
> the best case and worst case are both within an order of magnitude, just go
> high. Quick method, to borrow a phrase from a colleague, "... round up and
> double ..."
>
> I'll repeat a question that I asked a while back:
> Has anybody ever known a structure failure due to base (steel/concrete) or
> anchor failure in the finished state (not during construction)?
> I have heard anecdotal stories but nothing confirmed as engineering failure
> vs overload, material or construction failures.
>
> Regards
> Paul
> --
> Paul Ransom, P.Eng.
> ph 905 639-9628
> fax 905 639-3866
> ad026@hwcn.org
>
>
> > From: "John J. Treff" <jjtreff@hotmail.com>
>
> > Does anyone have an example or a good reference for biaxial base plate desi=
> > gn? AISC Design Guide 1 deals only with uniaxial bending. Any references (=
> > books=2C manuals=2C papers=2C etc.)=2C suggestions or ideas on how to desig=
> > n biaxially (interaction of some sort or design separately for both axes an=
> > d then pick the worst case scenario) would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
> > From: "Adair, Joel" <jadair@shwgroup.com>
>
> > Not that this will provide you with any guidance or understanding, but
> > RISA makes RISABase, which will handle biaxial bending, and just about
> > any other load combination you can dream up. We had it when I worked
>
> > -- Joel Adair
>
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
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> *
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> * send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> * site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

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Re: base plate design

Harold

Do you mean the tanks were filled beyond the designed capacity for the anchors?

Joe Venuti
Johnson & Nielsen Associates
Palm Springs, CA

In a message dated 11/9/2009 9:41:21 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, prajendran@ymail.com writes:

Harold,

How does tank pressure cause anchor bolt stretching?

Rajendran

--- On Sun, 11/8/09, Harold Sprague <spraguehope@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Harold Sprague <spraguehope@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: base plate design
To: seaint@seaint.org
Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 7:35 PM

Yes. I have known of several failures for tank anchor rods. The anchor rods stretch a long way. This most commonly occurs when tanks are overpressurized.

Regards, Harold Sprague

> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 11:07:01 -0500
> Subject: Re: base plate design
> From: ad026@hwcn.org
> To: seaint@seaint.org
>
> Highly neglected topic. No good single reference. The problem is the huge
> range of possibilities that can occur in: member section (shape and aspect
> ratios); load effects at the theoretical section end; local effects in the
> column, plate, rods, grout, concrete, welds; geometry of rod pattern; base
> shear (a topic in itself); elastic/plastic transition; flexible/rigid;
> assumptions...
>
> There was an interesting presentation at NASCC '09 in Phoenix, Better Base
> Plate Designs. I'll follow up if I can remember the researchers involved. I
> had a chat with them before I attended because I didn't want to waste my
> time. They reinforced the need for rigorous analysis. I believe that the
> work was supported by RISA Technologies for RISABase.
>
> I probably spend as much time with base plates as with the most complex
> connections in a structure. Lots of iteration and no single controlling
> case. I like to bracket my solutions to determine how much time to spend. If
> the best case and worst case are both within an order of magnitude, just go
> high. Quick method, to borrow a phrase from a colleague, "... round up and
> double ..."
>
> I'll repeat a question that I asked a while back:
> Has anybody ever known a structure failure due to base (steel/concrete) or
> anchor failure in the finished state (not during construction)?
> I have heard anecdotal stories but nothing confirmed as engineering failure
> vs overload, material or construction failures.
>
> Regards
> Paul
> --
> Paul Ransom, P.Eng.
> ph 905 639-9628
> fax 905 639-3866
> ad026@hwcn.org
>
>
> > From: "John J. Treff" <jjtreff@hotmail.com>
>
> > Does anyone have an example or a good reference for biaxial base plate desi=
> > gn? AISC Design Guide 1 deals only with uniaxial bending. Any references (=
> > books=2C manuals=2C papers=2C etc.)=2C suggestions or ideas on how to desig=
> > n biaxially (interaction of some sort or design separately for both axes an=
> > d then pick the worst case scenario) would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
> > From: "Adair, Joel" <jadair@shwgroup.com>
>
> > Not that this will provide you with any guidance or understanding, but
> > RISA makes RISABase, which will handle biaxial bending, and just about
> > any other load combination you can dream up. We had it when I worked
>
> > -- Joel Adair
>
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> * send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> * site at: http://www.seaint.org
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RE: base plate design

Harold,

How does tank pressure cause anchor bolt stretching?

Rajendran

--- On Sun, 11/8/09, Harold Sprague <spraguehope@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Harold Sprague <spraguehope@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: base plate design
To: seaint@seaint.org
Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 7:35 PM

Yes. I have known of several failures for tank anchor rods. The anchor rods stretch a long way. This most commonly occurs when tanks are overpressurized.

Regards, Harold Sprague

> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 11:07:01 -0500
> Subject: Re: base plate design
> From: ad026@hwcn.org
> To: seaint@seaint.org
>
> Highly neglected topic. No good single reference. The problem is the huge
> range of possibilities that can occur in: member section (shape and aspect
> ratios); load effects at the theoretical section end; local effects in the
> column, plate, rods, grout, concrete, welds; geometry of rod pattern; base
> shear (a topic in itself); elastic/plastic transition; flexible/rigid;
> assumptions...
>
> There was an interesting presentation at NASCC '09 in Phoenix, Better Base
> Plate Designs. I'll follow up if I can remember the researchers involved. I
> had a chat with them before I attended because I didn't want to waste my
> time. They reinforced the need for rigorous analysis. I believe that the
> work was supported by RISA Technologies for RISABase.
>
> I probably spend as much time with base plates as with the most complex
> connections in a structure. Lots of iteration and no single controlling
> case. I like to bracket my solutions to determine how much time to spend. If
> the best case and worst case are both within an order of magnitude, just go
> high. Quick method, to borrow a phrase from a colleague, "... round up and
> double ..."
>
> I'll repeat a question that I asked a while back:
> Has anybody ever known a structure failure due to base (steel/concrete) or
> anchor failure in the finished state (not during construction)?
> I have heard anecdotal stories but nothing confirmed as engineering failure
> vs overload, material or construction failures.
>
> Regards
> Paul
> --
> Paul Ransom, P.Eng.
> ph 905 639-9628
> fax 905 639-3866
> ad026@hwcn.org
>
>
> > From: "John J. Treff" <jjtreff@hotmail.com>
>
> > Does anyone have an example or a good reference for biaxial base plate desi=
> > gn? AISC Design Guide 1 deals only with uniaxial bending. Any references (=
> > books=2C manuals=2C papers=2C etc.)=2C suggestions or ideas on how to desig=
> > n biaxially (interaction of some sort or design separately for both axes an=
> > d then pick the worst case scenario) would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
> > From: "Adair, Joel" <jadair@shwgroup.com>
>
> > Not that this will provide you with any guidance or understanding, but
> > RISA makes RISABase, which will handle biaxial bending, and just about
> > any other load combination you can dream up. We had it when I worked
>
> > -- Joel Adair
>
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> * send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> * site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

Windows 7: Unclutter your desktop. Learn more.

Internship query !

I am a 2nd year B.tech student and in obv Civil. I have got along good
with my branch and I am loving it. I want to ask is that doing
research or going on site, which is more valuable for my internship in
2010 ? Secondly, I have gud interest in geotech bt ppl say that
Structural M.tech are more paid then Geotechnical M.tech, is it
correct ?

re: base plates

Paul,
Architect friend of mine had a project where the contractor did not grout under the base plates of the columns on a multi-story building and the anchor bolts failed in buckling like mini-columns. I don't remember the repercussions or how far into the construction it was, it was not disasterous but I would think they would loose a couple of vertical inches and have to find a way to jack the column up and re-anchor it. Imagine the building is finished or occupied and you loose two inches at every floor and your integrity at the base of the column(s)....

Andrew Kester, PE

re: sloped beam

Larry,

I fully agree with others in that you should just have them erect the beam level and they can build the exterior deck with whatever slope you want via concrete finishing. Too many factors to otherwise get that to work with the steel alone, and that is more expensive and difficult...

Andrew Kester, PE

re: sloped beam

Larry,

Andrew Kester, PE

Re: FREE Technical webinar provides 1.0 PDH (0.1 CEU)

Please reserve a seat for me for the '1 hour Webinar' to be held on November 12.

Thanks,

Max Golshahr

-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Newton <matthew.newton@cscworld.com>
To: seaint@seaint.org
Sent: Sat, Nov 7, 2009 10:04 am
Subject: FREE Technical webinar provides 1.0 PDH (0.1 CEU)

Please accept this final invitation for our FREE webinar this Thursday.  Over 1,000 engineers have already registered.   The knowledge gained from this webinar is equally applicable to any structural design software.  We will take you through the 2005 AISC specification step by step with some practical examples.  You will learn how to implement the Direct Analysis Method simply.  By attending, you will earn 1.0 PDH (0.1 CEU).  http://events.cscworld.com/ ________________________________ Matthew Newton CSC Inc Phone:    (877) 710-2053 Fax:      (312) 321 6489 Direct:   (312) 233 2912 Email:     matthew.newton@cscworld.com  Website:   www.cscworld.com   ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* *** *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp *  *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers  *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To  *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to: * *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp * *   Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you  *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted  *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web  *   site at: http://www.seaint.org  ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

RE: FREE Technical webinar provides 1.0 PDH (0.1 CEU)

Hello I would like to attend. Pleasec let me know how. Thank you

-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Newton [mailto:matthew.newton@cscworld.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:04 AM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: FREE Technical webinar provides 1.0 PDH (0.1 CEU)

Please accept this final invitation for our FREE webinar this Thursday.

Over 1,000 engineers have already registered. The knowledge gained
from
this webinar is equally applicable to any structural design software.

We will take you through the 2005 AISC specification step by step with
some
practical examples. You will learn how to implement the Direct Analysis
Method simply.

By attending, you will earn 1.0 PDH (0.1 CEU).

http://events.cscworld.com/
________________________________
Matthew Newton
CSC Inc
Phone: (877) 710-2053
Fax: (312) 321 6489
Direct: (312) 233 2912
Email: matthew.newton@cscworld.com
Website: www.cscworld.com

******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
* Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
*
* This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
* Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
* subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
*
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Re: base plate design

Paul,

I know only of base failures during construction, and none had anchor bolts as the proximate cause. All resulted from some issue with concrete confinement in the foundation. Either the pier lacked sufficient ties, shims were placed improperly or grout was not placed or some combination. A lot of bent anchor bolts resulted, though. I also recall a spread footing that was cast off location which was picked up by the anchor bolts and placed correctly (and that was back in the days of hooked bolts).

Jim Getaz

Sunday, November 8, 2009

Re: Mr.Liaqat

Dear,

Thanks for invitation
and accepted with pleasure.
You can add me.

Keep in touch.

Regards,

On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 11:14 PM, <ghan0022@umn.edu> wrote:
> Dear Mr.Liaqat,
> My name is Naeem Ghani presently residing in Minneapolis, MN. I am also
> Structural Engineer. I was reading your blogs on the list and wanted to add
> you to my professional network if that is OK with you.
>
> Thanks,
> Naeem Ghani, P.E., LEED AP
> Cell: (763)843-3198
>
> On Nov 6 2009, Liaquat Ally Akhand wrote:
>
>> Dear,
>>
>> I worked with some transition/tapered beam. FP weld is alright, but
>> need to ensure that
>> the joint is 100% FP. The fit-up should be good with smooth surface,
>> root run should be could
>> and to be checked, Gouging on other sid after completing welding on
>> one side, sufficient scallop should be provided for good accessibility
>> and 100% MPI and UT.
>>
>> Sharp nothces should be ground off.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 1:38 AM, Larry Hauer <lhauer@live.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> To All,
>>>
>>> I am working on a project where I need to span the floor beams 52 feet
>>> and
>>> at about half way thru the span the beam changes from being horzontally
>>> level to sloping at 1/8 or 1/4 inch per foot, (going from an interior
>>> space
>>> to an exterior deck). I assume a full pen weld at this transition will
>>> work,
>>> but are there concerns I am overlooking?
>>>
>>> Thanks in Advance,
>>>
>>> Larry Hauer, S.E.
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. Sign up
>>> now.
>>
>> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
>> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
>> * * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers * Association
>> of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To * subscribe (no fee) or
>> UnSubscribe, please go to:
>> *
>> * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
>> *
>> * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you * send to
>> the list is public domain and may be re-posted * without your permission.
>> Make sure you visit our web * site at: http://www.seaint.org *******
>> ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> * * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers * Association of
> Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To * subscribe (no fee) or
> UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you * send to
> the list is public domain and may be re-posted * without your permission.
> Make sure you visit our web * site at: http://www.seaint.org *******
> ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
>

RE: base plate design

Yes. I have known of several failures for tank anchor rods. The anchor rods stretch a long way. This most commonly occurs when tanks are overpressurized.

Regards, Harold Sprague

> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 11:07:01 -0500
> Subject: Re: base plate design
> From: ad026@hwcn.org
> To: seaint@seaint.org
>
> Highly neglected topic. No good single reference. The problem is the huge
> range of possibilities that can occur in: member section (shape and aspect
> ratios); load effects at the theoretical section end; local effects in the
> column, plate, rods, grout, concrete, welds; geometry of rod pattern; base
> shear (a topic in itself); elastic/plastic transition; flexible/rigid;
> assumptions...
>
> There was an interesting presentation at NASCC '09 in Phoenix, Better Base
> Plate Designs. I'll follow up if I can remember the researchers involved. I
> had a chat with them before I attended because I didn't want to waste my
> time. They reinforced the need for rigorous analysis. I believe that the
> work was supported by RISA Technologies for RISABase.
>
> I probably spend as much time with base plates as with the most complex
> connections in a structure. Lots of iteration and no single controlling
> case. I like to bracket my solutions to determine how much time to spend. If
> the best case and worst case are both within an order of magnitude, just go
> high. Quick method, to borrow a phrase from a colleague, "... round up and
> double ..."
>
> I'll repeat a question that I asked a while back:
> Has anybody ever known a structure failure due to base (steel/concrete) or
> anchor failure in the finished state (not during construction)?
> I have heard anecdotal stories but nothing confirmed as engineering failure
> vs overload, material or construction failures.
>
> Regards
> Paul
> --
> Paul Ransom, P.Eng.
> ph 905 639-9628
> fax 905 639-3866
> ad026@hwcn.org
>
>
> > From: "John J. Treff" <jjtreff@hotmail.com>
>
> > Does anyone have an example or a good reference for biaxial base plate desi=
> > gn? AISC Design Guide 1 deals only with uniaxial bending. Any references (=
> > books=2C manuals=2C papers=2C etc.)=2C suggestions or ideas on how to desig=
> > n biaxially (interaction of some sort or design separately for both axes an=
> > d then pick the worst case scenario) would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
> > From: "Adair, Joel" <jadair@shwgroup.com>
>
> > Not that this will provide you with any guidance or understanding, but
> > RISA makes RISABase, which will handle biaxial bending, and just about
> > any other load combination you can dream up. We had it when I worked
>
> > -- Joel Adair
>
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> * Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> * http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> * Questions to seaint-ad@seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> * send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> * site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********

Windows 7: Unclutter your desktop. Learn more.

Re: Nonstructural - possible iMAC purchase

Drew,
What do you want to do with it?

Web browsing, music/movie downloads, email, word processing, database,
presentations, picture and video archive and editing. All easily doable.

Inexpensive or free software? Software off the rack at Best Buy? Look
elsewhere. However, you will find everything that you need and it will be
highly functional and platform transferable.

Due to the evolution of the Mac OS more of the common functions are built
into the OS and do not have to be duplicated in apps. So things work
together, better.

IMac:
Pros - bigger/faster hard drive, more possible memory than Mini; everything
you need for a work environment, plus some. if you want to do a lot of home
video editing, start here.
Cons - all-in-one but everything that you will need for its lifetime;

Mini:
(a laptop in a small desktop format - more companies should make this)
Pros - small footprint, designed to be great as a "personal" computer, WiFi,
Bluetooth
Cons - you will hit limits with some "professional" level applications

Macbook Air:
Pros - portable (great for roving around the house), great as a "personal"
computer, magsafe power cord.
Cons - dependent on WAN/LAN internet connection or USB memory (no disk
drives - probably the next evolution for all computing devices)

Typical lifespan of a new Mac, for me, has been about 7 years. I retire one
usually, because it drops off the software upgrade path. Total cost of
ownership ...

Buy from an Apple dealer. In the rare event that you might need service, you
won't regret paying the small premium. As with all computers, add all the
memory that you can afford. Many of the big box retailers cannot even open
the case to install more memory (voids the warranty, though they won't
explain that).

I moved to Wintel boxes in the office for engineering software but the house
is all Mac.

I have a firewall router but I don't run any third-party security software
on the Macs - never had a problem. The office Wintels are a different story.

These are the things that come to mind. You won't regret the purchase.

I'm Paul and I'm a Mac ...
--
Paul Ransom, P.Eng.
ph 905 639-9628
fax 905 639-3866
ad026@hwcn.org

> From: Drew Morris <dmorris@bbfm.com>

> I have been thinking of getting an Apple iMAC or mini MAc for home. I
> know there are a few Macheads out there. Any suggestions? Likes or dislikes?
> You can respond privately to me if you wish. TIA
>
> Drew Morris

Re: base plate design

Highly neglected topic. No good single reference. The problem is the huge
range of possibilities that can occur in: member section (shape and aspect
ratios); load effects at the theoretical section end; local effects in the
column, plate, rods, grout, concrete, welds; geometry of rod pattern; base
shear (a topic in itself); elastic/plastic transition; flexible/rigid;
assumptions...

There was an interesting presentation at NASCC '09 in Phoenix, Better Base
Plate Designs. I'll follow up if I can remember the researchers involved. I
had a chat with them before I attended because I didn't want to waste my
time. They reinforced the need for rigorous analysis. I believe that the
work was supported by RISA Technologies for RISABase.

I probably spend as much time with base plates as with the most complex
connections in a structure. Lots of iteration and no single controlling
case. I like to bracket my solutions to determine how much time to spend. If
the best case and worst case are both within an order of magnitude, just go
high. Quick method, to borrow a phrase from a colleague, "... round up and
double ..."

I'll repeat a question that I asked a while back:
Has anybody ever known a structure failure due to base (steel/concrete) or
anchor failure in the finished state (not during construction)?
I have heard anecdotal stories but nothing confirmed as engineering failure
vs overload, material or construction failures.

Regards
Paul
--
Paul Ransom, P.Eng.
ph 905 639-9628
fax 905 639-3866
ad026@hwcn.org

> From: "John J. Treff" <jjtreff@hotmail.com>

> Does anyone have an example or a good reference for biaxial base plate desi=
> gn? AISC Design Guide 1 deals only with uniaxial bending. Any references (=
> books=2C manuals=2C papers=2C etc.)=2C suggestions or ideas on how to desig=
> n biaxially (interaction of some sort or design separately for both axes an=
> d then pick the worst case scenario) would be greatly appreciated.

> From: "Adair, Joel" <jadair@shwgroup.com>

> Not that this will provide you with any guidance or understanding, but
> RISA makes RISABase, which will handle biaxial bending, and just about
> any other load combination you can dream up. We had it when I worked

> -- Joel Adair

Saturday, November 7, 2009

RE: base plate design

Not that this will provide you with any guidance or understanding, but RISA makes RISABase, which will handle biaxial bending, and just about any other load combination you can dream up. We had it when I worked for a previous employer, and it was a nice piece of software, though it was complete overkill for 90% of the base plates we designed. It came in handy, though, when we had unusual loading or geometry. It uses a finite element model to determine stresses. After being somewhat neglected by RISA while they worked on their more significant software, I think it’s been updated to current codes.

-- Joel Adair

SHW Group

Dallas, TX

From: John J. Treff [mailto:jjtreff@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 7:14 PM
To: Structural Engineers International
Subject: base plate design

Hello,
Does anyone have an example or a good reference for biaxial base plate design? AISC Design Guide 1 deals only with uniaxial bending. Any references (books, manuals, papers, etc.), suggestions or ideas on how to design biaxially (interaction of some sort or design separately for both axes and then pick the worst case scenario) would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

JJ

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This e-mail transmission is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above and may contain information that is confidential, privileged, and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, disclosure, copying, distribution, or other use of any of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender by e-mail at the above address and delete it from your computer system; you should not copy the message or disclose its contents to anyone. The content of the message and or attachments may not reflect the view and opinions of the originating company or any party it is representing.

base plate design

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Partial Settlement in 35W Bridge Collapse Lawsuits

*Partial Settlement in 35W Bridge Collapse Lawsuits

*Published : Friday, 06 Nov 2009, 1:20 PM CST

MINNEAPOLIS - A partial settlement was announced Friday in the lawsuits
brought against the construction company involved in the Interstate 35W
bridge collapse.

Progressive Contractors Inc. was working on repaving the 35W bridge when
it fell on Aug. 1, 2007, killing 13 people.

Hennepin County Judge Deborah Hedlund, who approved the settlement
Friday, said financial terms wouldn't be released. Chris Messerly, an
attorney for victims, says the families believed the settlement was in
their best interests.. (Read more here:
http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news/minnesota/35w-bridge-collapse-pci-lawsuit-settlement-nov-6-2009)

=============================================================

FREE Technical webinar provides 1.0 PDH (0.1 CEU)

Please accept this final invitation for our FREE webinar this Thursday.

Over 1,000 engineers have already registered. The knowledge gained from
this webinar is equally applicable to any structural design software.

We will take you through the 2005 AISC specification step by step with some
practical examples. You will learn how to implement the Direct Analysis
Method simply.

By attending, you will earn 1.0 PDH (0.1 CEU).

http://events.cscworld.com/
________________________________
Matthew Newton
CSC Inc
Phone: (877) 710-2053
Fax: (312) 321 6489
Direct: (312) 233 2912
Email: matthew.newton@cscworld.com
Website: www.cscworld.com

Mr.Liaqat

Dear Mr.Liaqat,

My name is Naeem Ghani presently residing in Minneapolis, MN. I am also
Structural Engineer. I was reading your blogs on the list and wanted to add
you to my professional network if that is OK with you.

Thanks,

Naeem Ghani, P.E., LEED AP
Cell: (763)843-3198

On Nov 6 2009, Liaquat Ally Akhand wrote:

>Dear,
>
>I worked with some transition/tapered beam. FP weld is alright, but
>need to ensure that
>the joint is 100% FP. The fit-up should be good with smooth surface,
>root run should be could
>and to be checked, Gouging on other sid after completing welding on
>one side, sufficient scallop should be provided for good accessibility
>and 100% MPI and UT.
>
>Sharp nothces should be ground off.
>
>Regards,
>
>
>On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 1:38 AM, Larry Hauer <lhauer@live.com> wrote:
>> To All,
>>
>> I am working on a project where I need to span the floor beams 52 feet
>> and
>> at about half way thru the span the beam changes from being horzontally
>> level to sloping at 1/8 or 1/4 inch per foot, (going from an interior
>> space
>> to an exterior deck). I assume a full pen weld at this transition will
>> work,
>> but are there concerns I am overlooking?
>>
>> Thanks in Advance,
>>
>> Larry Hauer, S.E.
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. Sign up
>> now.
>
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Friday, November 6, 2009

Re: wind and drift

Wow,
H/20 blows my mind. I was not aware of any manufacturer that would stoop to
using that, let alone acknowledging the fact. No, I take that back ... I am
not aware of any _reputable_ manufacturer that would allow that limit as the
controlling condition.

Can we name names here?

Allowing h/20 as a design limit switch in software and designing a structure
that theoretically achieves a deflection at h/20 are separate issues.
Regardless of which element of the PEMB has design controlled at this limit,
I will guarantee that there is a connected element that is not properly
stabilized. The designer's focus is too narrow and the software is only
capable of checking what it has been programmed to check. I am not aware of
any manufacturer's software that could adequately handle that design.

Say, any more news about the Dallas Cowboys former practice facility? I saw
the preliminary report ...

Regards
Paul
--
Paul Ransom, P.Eng.
ph 905 639-9628
fax 905 639-3866
ad026@hwcn.org

> From: Jnapd@aol.com

> As Harold indicated all the PEMB projects I have been involved with the
> initial design was for h/20. I explain to the clients that because of the
> h/20 design criteria within 5 years your building will leak water for sure and
> probably air also. I suggest that the deflection lint be change to h/200
> the is happier but the PEMB supplier claims the price has now increased
> $10 -15,000 because of the more restrictive requirement.
>
> Joe Venuti
> Johnson & Nielsen Associates
> Palm Springs, CA

Re: WF Beams with F.P Weld @ Midspan

Dear,

I worked with some transition/tapered beam. FP weld is alright, but
need to ensure that
the joint is 100% FP. The fit-up should be good with smooth surface,
root run should be could
and to be checked, Gouging on other sid after completing welding on
one side, sufficient scallop should be provided for good accessibility
and 100% MPI and UT.

Sharp nothces should be ground off.

Regards,

On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 1:38 AM, Larry Hauer <lhauer@live.com> wrote:
> To All,
>
> I am working on a project where I need to span the floor beams 52 feet and
> at about half way thru the span the beam changes from being horzontally
> level to sloping at 1/8 or 1/4 inch per foot, (going from an interior space
> to an exterior deck). I assume a full pen weld at this transition will work,
> but are there concerns I am overlooking?
>
> Thanks in Advance,
>
> Larry Hauer, S.E.
>
> ________________________________
> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. Sign up
> now.

RE: WF Beams with F.P Weld @ Midspan

Paul and Ralph-

Good points!

Thanks,

Larry

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 11:58:19 -0700
Subject: Re: WF Beams with F.P Weld @ Midspan
From: paul.blomberg@gmail.com
To: seaint@seaint.org

A full pen weld is fairly common and shouldn't be a concern. I normally ask for testing (either UT or mag particle) for the weld.

Of concern might be the deflection anticipated for a 52' steel beam and the camber that is inherit in the beam. A 1/8" per foot slope is small and the camber and live load deflection might make that drainage slope insignificant.

You might consider tapered insulation to develop your slope and field verify actual elevations and slope to drains.

Good luck,

Paul.

Phoenix, AZ

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Larry Hauer <lhauer@live.com> wrote:

To All,

I am working on a project where I need to span the floor beams 52 feet and at about half way thru the span the beam changes from being horzontally level to sloping at 1/8 or 1/4 inch per foot, (going from an interior space to an exterior deck). I assume a full pen weld at this transition will work, but are there concerns I am overlooking?

Thanks in Advance,

Larry Hauer, S.E.

Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.

Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.

Re: WF Beams with F.P Weld @ Midspan

In a message dated 11/6/09 10:58:41 AM, paul.blomberg@gmail.com writes:

A 1/8" per foot slope is small and the camber and live load deflection might make that drainage slope insignificant.

I second that emotion, only changing "might" to "WILL." 1/8" is worthless; 1/4" *may* be adequate; my understanding is/was that the federal standard for their own projects was 1/2". Remember that the slope in a diagonal drain, as at a corner, is likely to be only half that of the main slope.

Ralph

Re: WF Beams with F.P Weld @ Midspan

A full pen weld is fairly common and shouldn't be a concern. I normally ask for testing (either UT or mag particle) for the weld.

You might consider tapered insulation to develop your slope and field verify actual elevations and slope to drains.

Good luck,

Paul.

Phoenix, AZ

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Larry Hauer <lhauer@live.com> wrote:

To All,

I am working on a project where I need to span the floor beams 52 feet and at about half way thru the span the beam changes from being horzontally level to sloping at 1/8 or 1/4 inch per foot, (going from an interior space to an exterior deck). I assume a full pen weld at this transition will work, but are there concerns I am overlooking?

Thanks in Advance,

Larry Hauer, S.E.

Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.

Re: Nonstructural - possible iMAC purchase

now you can load windows in iMac either by "boot camp" or "desktop parallel" any one tried for

Windows base engineering programs as AutoCAD etic....

thanks for input

Dave A

----- Original Message -----

From: David L. Fisher

To: seaint@seaint.org

Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 10:10 AM

Subject: RE: Nonstructural - possible iMAC purchase

Drew:

My wife has a Macbook Pro and she loves it.

David L. Fisher SE PE

Senior Principal

Fisher and Partners

372 West Ontario

Suite 301

Chicago 60654

312.622.0409 (m)

312.573.1701

312.573.1726 (f)

www.fpse.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Drew Morris [mailto:dmorris@bbfm.com]
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 12:10 PM
To: SEAINT
Subject: Nonstructural - possible iMAC purchase

I have been thinking of getting an Apple iMAC or mini MAc for home. I know there are a few Macheads out there. Any suggestions? Likes or dislikes?
You can respond privately to me if you wish. TIA

Drew Morris

Re: Nonstructural - possible iMAC purchase

My Daughter got for school last year. She really really loves it.

Farzin S. Rahbar, SE
David C. Weiss Structural Engineer & Associates, Inc.
(818) 227-8040 Ex. 13 Fax: (818) 227-8041

In a message dated 11/6/2009 10:11:14 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, dmorris@bbfm.com writes:

I have been thinking of getting an Apple iMAC or mini MAc for home. I know there are a few Macheads out there. Any suggestions? Likes or dislikes?
You can respond privately to me if you wish. TIA

Drew Morris

Re: pull-out bars

Noy

You are talking about the typical practice like tilt-up wall panels that may or may not be stacked during concrete placement and during erection the slab dowels are pulled up from the surface to between 45 to 90 degrees creating slab dowels. Back construction days when I built 50 -100 projects with panels using this system. You could say it was the standard in the LA /Southern California area.

Still to this day I see it being used all over. Yes a better engineering solution would be to use a screw in dowel such as Richmond came up with in the mid seventies. But getting the contractor to use them was near to impossible. The cost of each assemblage cost and how to hold in place during the pouring process. They were more accepted for cast-in-place walls and slabs where you had a surface to secure them to.

Joe Venuti
Johnson & Nielsen Associates
Palm Springs, CA

In a message dated 11/5/2009 8:34:52 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, hou69noy@yahoo.com writes:

Bob,

I am referring with the re-bending embedded rebar's.

From: Bob Freeman <robert.freeman@idsse.com>
To: seaint@seaint.org
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2009 12:15:22
Subject: pull-out bars

Hi Noy:

Are you referring to a process that a threaded insert could provide? A threaded insert could be threaded to a hooked bar in the wall/column and then after the wall is poured, a beam re-bar could be threaded into the same insert. I would design a corbel to hold the vertical reaction of the beam in the second pour as well.

We have done this successfully on several projects.

If you are re-bending an embedded rebar, the second bend after the first pour would severely weaken the rebar.

Respectfully,

Bob Freeman, AIA, EIT

949-387-8500

From: Noy Tiglao [mailto:hou69noy@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 12:42 PM
To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: pull-out bars

Is there provision in ACI or any standard/code that allows 'pull-out bars'? i am refering to a reinforcing bar that is bent and embedded in concrete wall/column, and then pull it out to connect/splice the reinforcing bar of a beam or slab. (personally, i do not agree with this approach but some engineering firms allow it) please give me insight. thanks.

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RE: Nonstructural - possible iMAC purchase

Drew:

My wife has a Macbook Pro and she loves it.

David L. Fisher SE PE

Senior Principal

Fisher and Partners

372 West Ontario

Suite 301

Chicago 60654

312.622.0409 (m)

312.573.1701

312.573.1726 (f)

www.fpse.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Drew Morris [mailto:dmorris@bbfm.com]
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 12:10 PM
To: SEAINT
Subject: Nonstructural - possible iMAC purchase

I have been thinking of getting an Apple iMAC or mini MAc for home. I know there are a few Macheads out there. Any suggestions? Likes or dislikes?
You can respond privately to me if you wish. TIA

Drew Morris

Nonstructural - possible iMAC purchase

WF Beams with F.P Weld @ Midspan

To All,

I am working on a project where I need to span the floor beams 52 feet and at about half way thru the span the beam changes from being horzontally level to sloping at 1/8 or 1/4 inch per foot, (going from an interior space to an exterior deck). I assume a full pen weld at this transition will work, but are there concerns I am overlooking?

Thanks in Advance,

Larry Hauer, S.E.

Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.

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