Regards
Al
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Gary L. Hodgson and Assoc. [mailto:ghodgson@bellnet.ca]
Gesendet: Montag, 5. November 2007 13:44
An: seaint@seaint.org
Betreff: Re: question my authority???!
This reminds of the time a customer came into my office yelling that I
had cost him money as the footings were way over in size. I let him vent
and then asked him how he knew the footings were over. At first he
wouldn't say but then he said the concrete ready-mix driver had told
him. Of course, everyone knows all these drivers have to have a degree
in engineering.
Gary
Andrew Kester, PE wrote:
> Scott actually brings up a good topic, and all good jokes aside, I
> think he needs to address this to the owner or client expeditiously
> before the owner thinks he is an overdesigner. Many owners/developers
> only care about the bottom line, and if they get a permit and C.O.
> they assume all is well. Anything over that is just
> overly-conservative engineering to them, and that can cost you
> business. I am NOT always sure of the best way to handle these things,
> but trying to speak directly with your architect or owner and explain
> that you perform your analysis and calculations to the latest code
> standards, and that you would gladly review an alternative design and
> calculations by another engineer.
>
> If this is during the design stage or prior to groundbreaking, you can
> say "Well, let me review our numbers and drawings to make sure that
> there was not a miscalculation or drafting error", and do just that.
> We all make mistakes, sometimes it happens in the drafting stage, or
> you fill out your footing schedule wrong or put the wrong footing mark
> on the plans. Even if you are 100% sure and you simply look at your
> drawings and say to yourself, "Man, I am so right" and call the
> architect back and say you double checked but you believe your design
> is to code, then you did your job and you will look better.
>
> I would like to hear from our seasoned vets on this issue because as a
> young small firm owner I need to have some options ready to save face
> with owners and clients.
>
> We have had this happen usually from a contractor who says one of the
> following, or a combination of them, and many times not to us but to
> the owner or architect:
> -We have never done it this way and I have been doing this for XXXX years
> -Engineer B down the street does it this way and he says it is fine
> -This is a complete waste and overdesign and is costing the owner lots
> of money (which if I could save I would not return the money but
> pocket it)
>
> We had a single story retail building with a large covered canopy over
> near the coast, and it was CMU with some CIP concrete arched beams.
> Some contractor sub, probably slow from work due to the slow down in
> residential/condo work, promised he could do the walls ALL in CIP
> concrete rather than CMU cheaper than CMU (seems crazy to me, but
> maybe he was really slow or had lots of forms and good subs). We get
> an Ad Serv to redesign the walls, and the contractor flips out when he
> gets our drawings as "we put way too much rebar in the walls and he
> always does them with X amount and the engineer down the street does
> it this way."
>
> Now the walls were single story and the design was not governed by
> strength but by ACI vertical and horizontal min reinforcement. We
> copied that section of the ACI along with some simple hand calcs
> showing why we could not space the bars and use the size he wanted to
> use, and the owner saw this as well. After a pow-wow they dropped the
> guy and went back to CMU. I am sure he made a promise he could not
> deliver, and I do believe that another engineer does it that way
> incorrectly (like 24" o.c. and #3 bars). Most of our plans reviewers
> will pass anything with a PE seal on it....
>
> On a side note, in this instance, I have to think that the ACI max
> spacing seems a bit too strict for a single story, lightly loaded
> wall, when you can reinforce 8" CMU with #5 @ 48" o.c. , while I
> believe off the top of my head we were limited to 18" o.c. for
> concrete. I am sure it can be explained but it is odd that weaker CMU
> requires much less reinforcement in the vertical direction....
>
>
>
> Andrew Kester, PE
> Principal/Project Manager
> ADK Structural Engineering, PLLC
> 1510 E Colonial Ave., Suite 301
> Orlando, FL 32803
>
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